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Topic ClosedTHE BEST RIFLE FOR WESTERN HUNTIN’

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North Logan View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
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aka The Legendary Lawman

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2003 at 16:59
Originally posted by klallen klallen wrote:

There are schmucks everywhere shooting rifles (standard and magnum) all over this great land whose accuracy capabilities leave a lot to be desired.  From the shear #'s of .30-06's and .270's in circulation, I'd have to imagine it would be very fair to assume that a large portion of these schmucks are '06 and .270 owners.  

Marcus [.270 & .30-06 owner]

"COLTS & PONY CARS"...
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** The RockChucker **

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2003 at 17:04
And one brave sole steps forward    .  Do I need to post pictures of my .270 and .30-06?

Edited by klallen
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aka The Kid

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 00:44

I want to see pictures of your .270 and your .30-06. Also wouldnt mind seeing that warbird, the Rem Mag (if i remember correctly that you have one) and all of your other magnums nad non-magnums as well!

NH_Hunter

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pocketnavy View Drop Down
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 06:47

C'mon Marcus . . . if you are not going to spill the beans . . . I will . . . we know that you keep pulling weapons out of the police's confiscated weapons locker and posting their pictures.  Shame on you.

Korey, do I sense a doubt in NH_Hunter's questions?  I wouldn't post those pictures if I were you.  It will ruin your image . . . LOL!  If NH_Hunter wants to know what a REAL .30-06 looks like [spell that Non-Ruger] . . . he can go to Legacy Sports website and pick up a picture of my Howa.

Still in shock over seeing DFC's picture.  Guess I better go back to work and maybe it will wear off!

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aka Keeper of the Old Traditions

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 08:53
I'm with Ron. One of the old military Mausers, in a caliber of anything from 6.5 on up will be the ticket. They are tough, will work in dirty and wet conditions, and are dependable in sub zero weather.
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aka The Kid

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 09:21

1....2....3....4...5...6...7...8...9...10. U oh not feeling better! 11...12...13...14...15...16...17...18...19...20... Hmmm not working yet... 21...22...23...24...25...26...27...28...29...30... hmmm starting to feel better. Now Pocketnavy, i would really like to see your walmart gun go up against my Ruger. I wouldnt be the shooter of my Ruger though, because i havent shot it yet! But anyways, i am still trying to figure out why you enjoy making people mad? Is it because of your own personal flaws way in the back of your head that you try to take out your anger on others because of them?

NH_Hunter

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Lawdog View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 10:13

 

The 200,000 CUP that Weatherby claims it’s actions to meet IS covered under the Truth-in-Advertising rules as it applies to advertisers under the Federal Trade Commission Act. It states that:

 

"advertising must be truthful and non-deceptive

advertisers must have evidence to back up their claims; and

advertisements cannot be unfair."

What makes an advertisement deceptive?

According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that;

 

is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and

is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product.

It also goes on to state that;

"What kind of evidence must a company have to support the claims in its ads?

Before a company runs an ad, it has to have a "reasonable basis" for the claims. A "reasonable basis" means objective evidence that supports the claim. The kind of evidence depends on the claim. At a minimum, an advertiser must have the level of evidence that it says it has."

What this means is that the company making the claim has to have evidence to back up their claim. You know tests. If Weatherby didn’t have the tests to back up their claim then one or more of the other firearms companies would have made Weatherby pull this from their ads and catalogs. If anyone COULD prove that what Weatherby says about their actions then they could MAKE Weatherby rescind their claim of 200,000 CUP. So fellers get your engineering degrees out and your testing equipment and PROVE that Weatherby is lying. Until then the claim stands. I guess some of you will want a link to the Federal Trade Commission so here it is for facts for business section.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/ad-faqs.htm

Lawdog

 

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klallen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 10:30

Interesting, LAWDOG.  Guess it's time for those that spoke the strongest against the WBY claim to ante up and disprove it.  >>  klallen

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 11:06

PN,

    I really doubt KL is one of them fat cat's thet don't take his rifle out until the day of the hunt.  If so he's a hell of a bullshitter, however I ain't never heard him say how many shots he does take at them distant targets. ( evill smerk)

KL,

   Glad we agree thet it takes more dedication to learn how to shoot a Mag, then it does a lesser gun.  Don't think yer right with the idea some of them don't shoot magnums.  Quite a few of them do, hell even normal folks who really try to learn to shoot buy the things (some regret it).  Guess I'm just sick an tired of sightin in magnums fer folks who cain't shoot more than 4 rounds throught them.  THEY WILL NEVER SHOOT THAT GUN RIGHT. (period) 

   Hey Pocket, you want to shoot, lets do it on my terms.  Moving targets at 300 yds, freehand with no bench, timed, and from low gun.  You can still zero in at 800 if ya want. 

  Spot



Edited by Spot shooter
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NH_Hunter View Drop Down
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aka The Kid

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 12:16

That sounds like good clean fun. Kind of like the New Hampshire lottery!

NH_Hunter

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.30/06 SpringField
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 12:44

Weatherby made the claim and I'm calling them on it. Here's their telephone number 805-466-1767,  Knock yourself out proving me wrong!

I just got off the phone with them, 2 of them and they have no test sheets or proof of any kind and tell me to contact their marketing department. LOL,LOL. ROFLMAO,LOL There is a fool born every second of every day.

 

Dan

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** The RockChucker **

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 12:48

OK, SS.  I think an explaination is in order here.  There seems to be some inconsistency in your last posts.  Trying to make a point on the difficulty of accurately shooting a magnum, you comment :

"Fact remains that given the spectum of folks and their shooting abilities more of "us" can master shooting the 06, then can master the Super Mag's"

Here you seem to be throwing yourself in with the group of folks that have a hard time mastering magnums.  Nothing offensive about that and I admire your honesty.  But in your next post, you write :

"Guess "I'm" just sick an tired of sightin in magnums fer folks who cain't shoot more than 4 rounds throught them.  THEY WILL NEVER SHOOT THAT GUN RIGHT. (period)"

You say this as if you're the guy that everyone's coming to ta sight in their magnums.  I guess it begs the question, if by your own admission, you are one of the fellas having trouble mastering magnums, why are folks coming to you to sight their magnums in?  Just curious.  >>  klallen

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aka The Kid

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 12:50

Bah, its all Pocketrockets fault!!!!

NH_Hunter

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 13:01

In the old days there were wooden ships and iron men, now we have iron ships and wooden men.

Dan

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 13:28

KL,

   I'm a victim of my own sucess, between workin on a gun, and buildin a load fer I can get most firesticks to chew a hole less than .4" at a 100yds.  After folks shoot with someone I've done the work for they usually show up at my door.  Last time I got a 06 in my hands I got her to shoot .28 center to center at 100yds.  The old redneck I did it for shoots 22 shells of the target backboard.

  These days I only do it fer close friends, hell in the old days I was loadin super solids, super expanders, and such before half of them were production.  i.e. I made specialty loads for folks.  When folks brought rifles sometimes they'd complain that their gun's jest won't shoot good.  Sometimes it's the gun, but sometimes it's the shooter.  I always try the "flinch test" when I give them their gun back.  3rd or 4th round will be a dummy.  Had one guy throw the forearm right off the block once, good kid but a crappy shooter.  If a guy holds it and doesn't react with the pin drops I know he's good. 

I can and have taken some serious punishment from recoil.   I often got ringed in to help guy's sight in their new gun.  STW's  especially the alaskan kick like a mule!  If you ever took economic's they got somethin called the law of diminishing return.  Kind of means if you get one cheese burger it has value to you, if you get a second then it has value but not as much as the first.  Now somewhere along the line you get satisfied and they couldn't give you a cheese burger.  So I'm a bit like that, I LOVE recoil, it gets the result I want, BUT once I got that result I don't need anymore.  Call me price sensitive to recoil.

PN, Not all folks who call themselves Enggineeeers are real engineers, and amongst those who job says engineer only about 10% are worth anythin.  And in that 10% you'll find about 1 in 5 are real engineers, the rest just now stuff.

Spot

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 14:13

You serious with that last post, SS?  Cause thinking back on your history here at BSB's, you're all of a sudden speaking a whole different tune then you ever have.

To further the oddity that is you, I don't think I've ever run into someone who claims to be so experienced and accomplished with magnums and their reloading, yet so strongly advises all who will listen against them.  Usually it's quite the opposite.  Those proficient with magnums fully understand what they have.  Rather than discouraging folks, they tend to try, by all means possible, to enourage and teach those wanting to experience the increased performance how it can accurately be accomplished.  I've seen none of this from you.  Ever.  Only complaint and criticism about the topic.  Makes me wonder   ...

However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, if you are actually reloading magnums for some of these poor souls, here's something to consider.  You're only doing half the job.  Loading for them and sending them on there way, then coming back here and bitching about it isn't doing anyone any good.  Take the next step and teach them how to shoot the magnum.

"I'm a victim of my own sucess"

I'm starting to think you're a victim of something alright.  What?  I'm not entirely sure.  But I figure it will surface sooner or later.  >>  klallen 



Edited by klallen
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 15:01

The proof lies with the person or persons making the claim NOT the person or persons doubting the claim!

"If anyone COULD prove that what Weatherby says about their actions then they could MAKE Weatherby rescind their claim of 200,000 CUP. So fellers get your engineering degrees out and your testing equipment and PROVE that Weatherby is lying. Until then the claim stands. I guess some of you will want a link to the Federal Trade Commission so here it is for facts for business section."  Maybe you should read your own post, I found it self explanatory.

"

The 200,000 CUP that Weatherby claims it’s actions to meet IS covered under the Truth-in-Advertising rules as it applies to advertisers under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

It states that:"advertising must be truthful and non-deceptive advertisers must have evidence to back up their claims; and advertisements cannot be unfair." What makes an advertisement deceptive? According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that; is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and  is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product.

 

Dan



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 16:25

KL,

   Read what I'm writin and not what yer thinkin I'm sayin'.

1)  Mag's are required fer dangerous game.

2)  Mag's are Optional (not required) on non-dangerous North American Game.

3)  On average more folks shooting a STW, will have problems then those shootin a 308.  Could be flinching, or just not shootin it enough to get use to it, this does happen with non-mag's but not as much.  Good shooters know how to shoot in all situations, not just from the bench. 

4)  Take it Down Straight (energy). - Wouldn't feel right takin a deer with a 223, although it's been done.  When I shoot something that has recoil due to a good amount of energy moving a large chunk of lead I know she's goin down tight.  35 drops them in their tracks, period.  And you know if from the bite on yer end.

5)  Mass vs. Distance -  I'd rather use that bite on my shoulder to get more lead going 2400 to 2700 fps, than gettin a lighter peice movin 3000+.  You can't make up fer mass.  I can however make up for distance.

6)  Percision shootin and natural shootin, are the only two I believe in.  Percision means LR, and exact shot placement.  Natural means you know the gun, round, and your reflexes enough to pull off tough shoots when you have to (like on a wounded runnin critter).

7)  We're all different, just cause one guy is good a somethin, don't mean everyone else is.  Let folks use their strenghts in life, and hunting.  Seek to understand, and remember we are one of  the good guy's. 

That's it KL, I wasn't kiddin about the shootin togehter, was about the competin, but I love shootin.  Just cause I don't advicate hunting with super mag's don't mean I don't get a kick out of shootin them now an again, or think thet you can't shoot them well.   

Spot

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2003 at 17:45

SS, I'm gonna exit this little discussion now.  Some of the generalities on your list are certainly agreeable; other opinions less so.  But I'll let it rest.

About the topic at hand, I simply do not believe you've got near the experience with magnums as you claim to have.  Wrong or right, from the things you post, it's a feeling I get.  No big deal.

However, I would encourage you to reread your #7 listing and take it to heart.  It's an interesting plea :

"We're all different, just cause one guy is good a somethin, don't mean everyone else is.  Let folks use their strenghts in life, and hunting.  Seek to understand, and remember we are one of  the good guy's"

Remember these words the next time me and you are involved in a longer range hunting discussion, SS.  Remember them when you're informing me that I an not a "real" hunter.  Remember them when you're informing me that I have no "hunting" skill.  Remember them as you're questioning my every method to justify my means.  I guarantee you, I will.

Have a good night.  >>  klallen

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2003 at 00:20

 KL,

   Good enough, #7 was a reminder to both of us.

 I try not condemin folks too much when I don't understand what and why their doing what their doin.  Of course this don't mean that I don't return fire, or pout when I get stiffed.  The only time I have been exposed to takin a shot at anything past 500 was when I was a kid and testing my skills, and in the military but I don't know if you'd classify thet as huntin either.  Anyhow, I have asked many "LR" hunters what LR hunting is, but never really get a response.  Guess they're tired of getting ripped on by others.  Like I said, I'm tryin to understand befer I seriously say anythin, only thing I can, or have spoke on is what I know from experience.  We'll leave it at that.

  If you ever get the chance, PM me on what LR huntin is like I said the goal ain't to flame ya, or call names.  Just to understand what your talkin 'bout, after that I'll probably ask a question or two.  I think you've already heard plenty of my opinions, 'en a man don't change cause others tell him somethin.   In either account enjoy what your doing!  Life's short -

spot

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