We are always making lists of what we want . . . and they are interesting . . . sometimes a little cuckoo . . . mine too . . . so I got to thinkin' while watching Shooters wookiees talking about fluting . . .  . . . geez!  Anyway . . . I think this is the best there is . . . and I will give some reasons why . . . sort of . . .

The rifle would have to be a Weatherby.  Why?  The best of course, but it would have to be a certain model.  The best feature/cost rifle they make is the Fibermark Stainless.  The Mark V action is the strongest made - will stand 200,000 CUP according to Weatherby.  The Fibermark stock ain't no regular composite.  It is a combination of Aramid, graphite, and fiberglass and it is pillar bedded.  The stock is equipped with a Pachmayr Decelerator butt pad [best there is in my opinion], and the stainless steel/synthetic combo is a good bad weather rifle.  Caliber for Western North America?  The .300 Weatherby Magnum . . . of course.  Will take anything from lagomorphs to Smokey the Bear!

The scope would have to be the silver & black Weaver Grand Slam in 3.5-10x50.  Why? Matches appearance of rifle.  Best overall range for Western hunting.  50mm objective for dim light enhancement.  Has 1/8" MOA click stops.  Field&Stream "Best of Best" award.  Editors Choice at Outdoor Life.  On & on.  Brightest of the brightest by personal observation.  Fully multi-coated lenses.  Not all scopes are multi-coated.

Mounts?  Only one way to go: Talley mounts and bases.

Nice things about this package is it really doesn't cost an "arm and a leg."  You may pay more, but you won't do better!

Flame away!  

pocketnavy

I’ll agree with the Weatherby but mine would have to be the Deluxe model. Just prefer the nice warm feeling you get from REAL wood(no laminates allowed). Also prefer that beautiful deep blue finish, no flashing stainless for me. Caliber choice is right on, .300 Weatherby Magnum. Scope, I’m not ready to trust Weaver again just yet so I would go with go with the Burris 4-16X with a 44mm lens. Main reason is because you can still get them in a blue finish that matches the Weatherby finish. Matching Burris rings and bases. Lawdog

.30-06

my first choice would be a czech, yugo or german mauser, but an older rem 700 or win 70 would be just as fine. good (but not fancy) walnut, blue finish

scope - sightron s2, satin finish. 3-9x42.

now this combo really WOULD be affordable, and would knock anything dead out west.

Hi Fred.......Okay, I'll play......

Browning A-bolt Stainless Stalker in .30-06 with a matte Leupold VariX-III 3.5-10x40mm.

Regards, Marcus.

Ruger m77mk2 LR .30-06 with a Leupold Vari-II Compact 2-7x28. Cant beat the light weight and fairly low cost of this pakage. Match this up with a 165 gr. Barnes X bullet, and you are good to go. For bruins, however, load up with 200 gr. Spitzers or 220 round nose and you got a sweet pakage. Cant forget the Claw rifle sling. Also, if you really want one you could add on a bipod, but wouldnt that bring the point of balance further ahead? I figure this setup is good enough.

NH_Hunter

OK . . . Marcus . . . looks like we are in the same thought process . . . very similar concepts.  What kind of mounts?  A little weak on power for me . . . for the ultimate chambering . . . if not a .300 Wby Mag then the .338 Win Mag has to be the best choice.  Anything else is a "girl's gun."

Yeah LAWDOG . . . I know what you are saying . . . and I hated synthetics at first . . . put many a nasty remark on Shooters about them.  I think what sold me, just recently, was a magazine article about some media dude somewhere "over there."  Humidity played a nasty job on the wood stock, mold damage of the wood and ruined the blue finish . . . almost an instant attack of mold and rust.  A synthetic/stainless would have solved HIS problem.  BUT . . . it is much more dry here.  The Weatherby Sporter doesn't cost much more, if any, and would be a "nicer" finish.  The Grand Slam is gorgeous . . . even the dang box is cute . . . Burris gets their optics from Japan . . . so it may be a toss-up.  I DO like their mounts.

The beauty of the Ruger is that the scope bases are integral and the rings are some of the best i have ever used!

NH_Hunter

Who makes "Ruger?"  

Two Rugers, recently handled, really got my juices flowing.  A MKII in 7x57 and one in .338 Win Mag.  Nice!  Prices great!

Seriously, a 2-7 just doesn't cut it out here.  Great in the Southern and Eastern woods.  I had a nice 2-7 44MAG.  Replaced it with a Bushnell 3-9.  Just a little more magnification for those common long shots . . . next scope will be 10X or more.  [See LAWDOGS choice!]

Hey Marcus . . . a female Akita would find a nice home here.  Think my spouse is ready to switch!  A Border Collie, ready to play, is a handful for a working girl!  Exhausting to say the least.  But I love the little booger . . . gawd she is cute . . .  and smart.  If she would just land once in awhile . . . to refuel if nothing else.  She is actually taking a nap right now.  One of God's miracles!  

Thought about Tikka on this rifle thing, but it would have to be SAKO first . . . but think the Weatherby out-classes it!  Ruger isn't even in the running in this case.  Right?  

Dont push it Pocketnavy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH_Hunter

Some people have problems with Ruger's new triggers because they are not as easy to adjust as the old ones. I personally think that the new Ruger triggers are fine. If you tried one and you didnt think so, then you just go to a gunsmith and have him/her adjust it for you. I guess the triggers are the only things people can comment on about Rugers. That is probably their only weakpoint if it even really matters. If you are just a regular old hunter, the trigger is fine. For all of the long range shooters however, they may have a problem with it.

NH_Hunter

Thanks NH . . . that's what I figured.  All it takes is one unreasonable complaint for all hell to break loose!  I sort of adjust to the triggers.  I have never adjusted one.  The one on my Howa is adjustable, but I don't want to mess with it.

I have had some Rugers.  I had a Ruger 10/22 from the early years - had a REAL nice walnut stock.  Cost me $60 new-in-the-box!  Those days are gone.  I also had a very nice Mini-14.  I never shot it.  I always shot my dad's!  Saving mine for a rainy day I guess - but eventually sold it.  I also had a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt.  REALLY liked it.  My sales of guns were tied up in marital complaints - which need not be discussed on here . . . just very sad.  New spouse has BOUGHT me guns . . . quite a change.  

"will stand 200,000 CUP according to Weatherby." 

Fred, Give it up! The correct term is 200,000 pounds yield strength, not Copper Units of Pressure, which by the way is a relative pressure reading and is not absolute.

Dan

Danget Dan . . . may have to promote you to "Wookiee!"  Never thought I would see the day.  Anyway, quote from Weatherby 2002 Catalog, Page 3:

"The foundation for the Mark V was the need for a stronger, safer action, able to withstand tremendous pressure (up to 200,000 copper units of pressure - nearly three times that which is required), . . ."

Not being an engineer, all I can do is rely on their information.   Now . . . what am I supposed to give up?  Anyway . . . it is a helluva strong action.   A steak dinner at the Outback will suffice  

and Tasco told you

"Called Tasco one time and talked to an engineer - didn't want to talk to a sales-type.  He said the World Class Plus was as good as a Leupold!!!!  Well . . . could be.  Said it tested rock-solid - withstanding recoil from a .458 Winchester no sweat"

I'd be curious who the "Engineer" was, probably some kid who cleans the office after school.  Far as I know Tasco is/was a marketing company not a scope manufacturer.

Pocket & all;

Been there, did that.  Winchester new model 70 stainless left hand bolt with BOSS/CR.  In a McMillan stock, free floated barrel.  Uncle Mike's stainless QD 1.25" sling swivels and a Turner military sling.  Leupold silver VariX III 3.5 X 10 50mm.  In .30-06, of course.  And, rather than being a fantasy gun, it's in my safe.

900F

Phew . . . did you smell that CB?  I think a wookiee is hiding around here someplace.  Damn . . . what a foul odor!   Reminds me of the javelinas I hunted in Texas.    

Oh well . . . we can ignore almost anything if we put our minds to it . . . continuing on . . . sounds like a great package.  As I said before, I would want something a 'little" more powerful, but our .30-06s will certainly do the job.  I like your choice of scope . . . at least as far as optics.  Right in the area I would want.  I have a 3x-9x, but not completely satisfied.  Went from a 2-7 to a 3-9 . . . maybe something more?  Wish more manufacturers would go the silver/nickel route.  With guys buying more and more stainless steel, it would seem to be more desired.  You like the BOSS?

"embarrising?"  . . .

Admit it Fred, your a failure and it shows in your ramblings and your employment history. As to growing up, look at your immature posts. I'm simply have no problem calling a spade a spade. As far as unemployment, I've never drawn a unemployment check my entire life.

 And I and others, don't buy rifles to feed our ego's, we buy them because it is a hobby. Some buy more than others, it doesn't matter, it isn't a competition. Others, YOU, talk about it while others are doing. There are plenty of people on here that support family's, make house payments and still manage to shoot and participate in the sport. That BS don't fly. The truth is you've dug yourself such a deep hole with your life's failings you can do nothing but talk about it.

 It seems to go right over your head that you just can't control yourself, you just have to keep stiring the pot. Of course we both know there are reasons for that don't we? They make pills for that, you should try it. I will now go back to my official Wookiee duties and wait awhile before I lower the boom. Have fun!

Best rifle for Western Hunting?  Hmmmmmm.  Ain't never believed in the "one gun does all" notion but there HAS to be something other than the .30-06, isn't there?  And no WBY's for me either.  Let's see here.  .264 good but smallish, .416 to big, Warbird to fast, .270 (no freak'in way).  7 RUM would be good but I think my choice would the the 7 STW.  Load up light or heavy, Ballistic Tip or Partition as the game requires.  Easy shooting and reloading cartridge.  A sporter weight rifle.  Not to light, not to heavy.  Something in the 9 - 9.5# range.  3-12x Sightron mil dot.  I think I could cover all the based nicely with another STW.  Plus I have all this damn brass and dies just waiting to be put back to work.  >>  klallen

pocketnavy wrote: OK . . . Marcus . . . looks like we are in the same thought process . . . very similar concepts.  What kind of mounts?  A little weak on power for me . . . for the ultimate chambering . . . if not a .300 Wby Mag then the .338 Win Mag has to be the best choice.  Anything else is a "girl's gun."

Hey Fred - Nope I stand by the .30-06 for this thread. I'd be just as happy with a Tikka 695 Master All-Weather stainless/synthetic but I think the Browning A-bolt stainless stalker is lighter.

Can shoot some Hornady "light magnums" in it to get some cooking velocities, too. Or just reload a round for the given hunting situation. I'd lean on 165 grainers as an all-round loading....

As for mounts. If it was going to be the Leupold VariX-III, then maybe Leupold dual dovetail mounts. Or I'd probably be just as happy with standard Weaver bases with Burris Signature "Z" rings.

Marcus.

That looks great Marcus . . . a little weak in the cartridge area . . . how about a Tikka 9.3x62?  Maybe a .338 in the Browning . . . or do they make one?

By the way, thanks for your work on the picture.  She will like that . . . make her cry . . . but good tears.  We miss our old brown dog.  Kiara has expanded her territory to a "no fly zone."  We have lots of hot air balloons in Springs.  She has issued daily warnings!  Don't know what she will do when we have the annual balloon festival.  May have to give her tranquilizers.     Odd . . . Lobi never looked up?  

Hey KLALLEN . . . I guess I have to agree to some extent with the 7mm STW.  But what rifle?  Notice that companies are getting interested in it.  Scope?  Sightron.  Haven't ever seen one, but they have a helluva warranty!  Wonder how the 7mm STW stacks up against the 7mm Weatherby?  Or the 7mm RUM?

What is wrong with the .30-06's power. If it can kill a man at like 2700 something yards, then i think it can handle stuff in NA at 200 yards. Fred, why dont you just save up some money, sell the HOWA, and buy a Weatherby if you want one soo much. Who cares if you have to save up for 5-12 months. Isnt it worth it? Also, make sure you put a nice scope on it. NO TRASHCOS ALLOWED!!!! NO BUSHNELLS BELOW THE 3200 ELITE!!!! If you break either of these rules then i will have to confiscate the rifle, the scope and all ammo that you have

NH_Hunter

PocketNavy,

     WHAT THE, 06 is the best hands down.  Ask any outfitter and he'll tell ya the guy's shootin hit 80+ % of what they're shootin at.  It's the guys with the superMag's who miss near 50% of the time.  Usually I won't chime in but what you said is bull (o6 is alittle weak).  Their are a few, and I mean few folks who can shoot big gun's well under pressure, unless your going after dangerous game it's pretty unwarented.

   MAN, you been watchin to much TV, and readin them bullshit ads.  This ain't no macho crap.  If you want to go across the course with me I'll shoot an 06, and you can take your weatherby.  Wouldn't be the first time I made a guy eat his words.  Remember there's folks here who are tryin to learn.  Try to stick to reality, and if your a established "mag" shooter state it so you don't mess up normal folks.

Spot

Dang SPOT . . . give me a break!  I too own a .30-06.  Darn it!  But I do like Weatherby.  I have put many thousands of .30-06 bullets downrange . . . abeit from an M1 for the most part.   My main hunting rifle, for many years, was a Remington 760 with a Weaver K4 scope.    And I do reload for my .30-06.  One of the "watchers" on here said I didn't know anything about reloading because I only reloaded one cartridge?

Hey . . . appreciate the comments on dog training.  We need all the input we can get.     

Some of you may remember me telling the shooting world what a crappy rifle my Sako 75 in 7 STW is. Well, after getting over my anger at the Mafia, I decided to work some magic on it and see what it could do. It will shoot 140 Nosler BT's with RL22 into 3/4" that's with 5 shots. The scope is a Leupold 6.5X20. I like to cartridge so well I'm planning a lighter weight rifle in 7STW built on a Remington action, Shilen barrel and trigger with McMillan stock. That should be the "best rifle for western hunting"

Dan

"Hey KLALLEN . . . I guess I have to agree to some extent with the 7mm STW.  But what rifle?"

I could live with a Winchester M70 Classic Sporter.  Almost had one at the last Great Falls gun show but a pesky .416 RemMag got in the way    .  Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's the way I go when the STW bug does bit.

"Scope?  Sightron.  Haven't ever seen one, but they have a helluva warranty!"

Really like Sightron.  Couple stores up here carry a pretty good line of them.  For the $$$, I don't think I could do better on my hunting rig.  My SII has certainly earned my respect.

"Wonder how the 7mm STW stacks up against the 7mm Weatherby?" Faster.

"Or the 7mm RUM?" Slower.

"Ask any outfitter and he'll tell ya the guy's shootin hit 80+ % of what they're shootin at.  It's the guys with the superMag's who miss near 50% of the time."

I don't believe that there is a single bit of factual proof to back a statement like this up, SS.  I'd be embarrassed with the 80% success rate that you claim the '06 users enjoy.  That ain't good.  I don't know a single hunter that wouldn't be embarrassed by an 80% success rate on shot.  We ain't back in grade school where 80% is a B-.  That kind of success is failure in my book.  And I've got scores of hunting partners, both standard and magnum shooters, that would whole-heartedly agree.  Also, are you seriously suggesting that you believe the overall success rate for a magnum user to be at that 50% mark?  >>  klallen

Fred, you're right about the misinformation provided by Weatherby quoted below.

"The foundation for the Mark V was the need for a stronger, safer action, able to withstand tremendous pressure (up to 200,000 copper units of pressure—nearly three times that of other popular actions), and the possibility of blown primers and ruptured caseheads (due to the unpredictability of early handloaded and wildcat cartridges)."          200,000# divided by three is 66,666#. Does that statement mean Winchester actions will only handle sixty six thousands pounds of pressure? I hope so as most of the magnum cartridges used today are loaded to just under 65,000#. I guess a little over load and you eat the action? I don't think so.

I would send them an E-mail if they had an E-mail address. I would like to know just how they came up with that exact figure when copper chrusher disc's are an exact science and only engineered to read up to 80,000 pounds of pressure. In order to read as high as 200,000 pounds, one would have to redesign the whole pressure testing Universal Receiver as that much pressure can't be controlled with we now have to work with. My best guess is they used a formula to convert tensile strength or yield strength to the amount of chamber pressure the action conceivably could contain before rupture. H. P. While laboratories could in fact do that kind of testing and the results would be in Weatherby's hands for distribution, so tell them to produce it. I for one don't believe they have a direct test showing 200,000 pounds!!I rather doubt if Weatherby uses a steel alloy much different from the other major manufacturers.

Dan

KL,

   Guess you don't get out much, who do you think is buyin up them super Mag's, just you guy's out west?  Fat cats thet own companies buy 'em cause the want the biggest badest gun out there for the 12k+ outfitted hunt.  One of my buddies just got back from New Zeland, he took 3 goats, and a Red stag.  Their were some big wig's with them from the east coast with RUM's, he used a 06 - guess who was missing, and I don't mean once!!!  Ain't the first time I've heard, and every time I ask a guy to shoot his rifle off hand I learn if they can tolerate that kick real quick.    

Fact remains that given the spectum of folks and their shooting abilities more of us can master shooting the 06, then can master the Super Mag's.  If you cain't swallow that then I can't help ya.   

Spot

Heh heh . . . I think you got promoted Korey!   LOL!  I always wondered what you were . . . "FAT CAT?"  To quote an old acquaintance . . . Eastman . . . "Bwahahahahasnickergiggle!"

Wait while I get off the floor!  Anyway . . . looks like you are going to have to introduce SPOT to your Warbird.  Wondered why you could only hit 50% of what you aimed at . . . does that include the Mule deer you sent me the picture of?  Now I wonder how many shots you took at that thing.  Must be dirt piles over half of Montana where you shot that thing?

See where we are going to have a contest in 2004 when we have the big meeting..We will set up a table, put your .416, your Warbird, and your 7mm STW on the table . . . and three hundred dollar bills . . . I am betting on you . . . say steel rams at 500 yards?

Hey DAN . . . you are probably right . . . I don't know diddly about it  . . . however, Weatherby catalogs have had that info for many years.  But you are right about one thing, I doubt if there is much difference in the steel used by Weatherby or Winchester . . . or even Howa!   Grin!

I get out plenty, SS.  Rest assured of that.

All I'm saying is if you have yourself convinced that the "serious" (I'll print that word out again for ya just so you're clear), "serious" magnum users are only succeeding 50% of the time, you're blowing smoke up your skirt and everyone elses here at BSB's.

There are schmucks everywhere shooting rifles (standard and magnum) all over this great land whose accuracy capabilities leave a lot to be desired.  From the shear #'s of .30-06's and .270's in circulation, I'd have to imagine it would be very fair to assume that a large portion of these schmucks are '06 and .270 owners.  Further, consider the millions and millions of "one weekend a year" hunters out there.  Consider how much time these schmucks take developing an accuracy skill!  How good can they possibly be with their rifles?  And I guarantee you, NONE of them would waste the time owning a magnum of any kind.  What do you suppose these folks own?  They ain't the fat cats or the big wigs, but the lower class of the hunting chain.  What would they use?  You bet.  Only the most popular, cheapest stuff out there (i.e. '06, .270).  Before you start throwing crap around about which shooters are the most inaccurate, you better consider all the schmucks flying off on a wing and a prayer with their favorite standard cartridge.

Oh yeah, saw your little challenge to POCKETNAVY.  Believe it went something like :

"If you want to go across the course with me I'll shoot an 06, and you can take your weatherby.  Wouldn't be the first time I made a guy eat his words"

You sound pretty confident with your '06.  I like that.  Just don't forget there are fellas shooting much larger stuff with equaled confidence.  A small group of us were out at 6am this morning set up at 1060 yds. waiting for the chucks to rise.  Issuing challenges is rather silly.

"Fact remains that given the spectum of folks and their shooting abilities more of us can master shooting the 06, then can master the Super Mag's.  If you cain't swallow that then I can't help ya."

I don't remember asking for your help, SS.  About anything.  The fact remains that what you say is true, not because it isn't possible for a large portion of folks to master magnums, but simply because they don't have the dicipline and don't put forth the effort to master them.  That's it.  It ain't a magnum issue by a long shot.  It's an issue with the fella behind the trigger.  Just as with the "one weekend a year hunters", it don't matter hill of beans weather these guys were shooting a .30-06 or a 7.82 Warbird.  They're missing, not cause of the cartridge they're using, but because of the time spent getting to know that cartridge.  >>  klallen 

klallen wrote: There are schmucks everywhere shooting rifles (standard and magnum) all over this great land whose accuracy capabilities leave a lot to be desired.  From the shear #'s of .30-06's and .270's in circulation, I'd have to imagine it would be very fair to assume that a large portion of these schmucks are '06 and .270 owners.

Marcus [.270 & .30-06 owner]

I want to see pictures of your .270 and your .30-06. Also wouldnt mind seeing that warbird, the Rem Mag (if i remember correctly that you have one) and all of your other magnums nad non-magnums as well!

NH_Hunter

C'mon Marcus . . . if you are not going to spill the beans . . . I will . . . we know that you keep pulling weapons out of the police's confiscated weapons locker and posting their pictures.  Shame on you.

Korey, do I sense a doubt in NH_Hunter's questions?  I wouldn't post those pictures if I were you.  It will ruin your image . . . LOL!  If NH_Hunter wants to know what a REAL .30-06 looks like [spell that Non-Ruger] . . . he can go to Legacy Sports website and pick up a picture of my Howa.

Still in shock over seeing DFC's picture.  Guess I better go back to work and maybe it will wear off!

1....2....3....4...5...6...7...8...9...10. U oh not feeling better! 11...12...13...14...15...16...17...18...19...20... Hmmm not working yet... 21...22...23...24...25...26...27...28...29...30... hmmm starting to feel better. Now Pocketnavy, i would really like to see your walmart gun go up against my Ruger. I wouldnt be the shooter of my Ruger though, because i havent shot it yet! But anyways, i am still trying to figure out why you enjoy making people mad? Is it because of your own personal flaws way in the back of your head that you try to take out your anger on others because of them?

NH_Hunter

Interesting, LAWDOG.  Guess it's time for those that spoke the strongest against the WBY claim to ante up and disprove it.  >>  klallen

PN,

    I really doubt KL is one of them fat cat's thet don't take his rifle out until the day of the hunt.  If so he's a hell of a bullshitter, however I ain't never heard him say how many shots he does take at them distant targets. ( evill smerk)

KL,

   Glad we agree thet it takes more dedication to learn how to shoot a Mag, then it does a lesser gun.  Don't think yer right with the idea some of them don't shoot magnums.  Quite a few of them do, hell even normal folks who really try to learn to shoot buy the things (some regret it).  Guess I'm just sick an tired of sightin in magnums fer folks who cain't shoot more than 4 rounds throught them.  THEY WILL NEVER SHOOT THAT GUN RIGHT. (period) 

   Hey Pocket, you want to shoot, lets do it on my terms.  Moving targets at 300 yds, freehand with no bench, timed, and from low gun.  You can still zero in at 800 if ya want. 

  Spot

That sounds like good clean fun. Kind of like the New Hampshire lottery!

NH_Hunter

Weatherby made the claim and I'm calling them on it. Here's their telephone number 805-466-1767,  Knock yourself out proving me wrong!

I just got off the phone with them, 2 of them and they have no test sheets or proof of any kind and tell me to contact their marketing department. LOL,LOL. ROFLMAO,LOL There is a fool born every second of every day.

Dan

OK, SS.  I think an explaination is in order here.  There seems to be some inconsistency in your last posts.  Trying to make a point on the difficulty of accurately shooting a magnum, you comment :

"Fact remains that given the spectum of folks and their shooting abilities more of "us" can master shooting the 06, then can master the Super Mag's"

Here you seem to be throwing yourself in with the group of folks that have a hard time mastering magnums.  Nothing offensive about that and I admire your honesty.  But in your next post, you write :

"Guess "I'm" just sick an tired of sightin in magnums fer folks who cain't shoot more than 4 rounds throught them.  THEY WILL NEVER SHOOT THAT GUN RIGHT. (period)"

You say this as if you're the guy that everyone's coming to ta sight in their magnums.  I guess it begs the question, if by your own admission, you are one of the fellas having trouble mastering magnums, why are folks coming to you to sight their magnums in?  Just curious.  >>  klallen

Bah, its all Pocketrockets fault!!!!

NH_Hunter

In the old days there were wooden ships and iron men, now we have iron ships and wooden men.

Dan

KL,

   I'm a victim of my own sucess, between workin on a gun, and buildin a load fer I can get most firesticks to chew a hole less than .4" at a 100yds.  After folks shoot with someone I've done the work for they usually show up at my door.  Last time I got a 06 in my hands I got her to shoot .28 center to center at 100yds.  The old redneck I did it for shoots 22 shells of the target backboard.

  These days I only do it fer close friends, hell in the old days I was loadin super solids, super expanders, and such before half of them were production.  i.e. I made specialty loads for folks.  When folks brought rifles sometimes they'd complain that their gun's jest won't shoot good.  Sometimes it's the gun, but sometimes it's the shooter.  I always try the "flinch test" when I give them their gun back.  3rd or 4th round will be a dummy.  Had one guy throw the forearm right off the block once, good kid but a crappy shooter.  If a guy holds it and doesn't react with the pin drops I know he's good. 

I can and have taken some serious punishment from recoil.   I often got ringed in to help guy's sight in their new gun.  STW's  especially the alaskan kick like a mule!  If you ever took economic's they got somethin called the law of diminishing return.  Kind of means if you get one cheese burger it has value to you, if you get a second then it has value but not as much as the first.  Now somewhere along the line you get satisfied and they couldn't give you a cheese burger.  So I'm a bit like that, I LOVE recoil, it gets the result I want, BUT once I got that result I don't need anymore.  Call me price sensitive to recoil.

PN, Not all folks who call themselves Enggineeeers are real engineers, and amongst those who job says engineer only about 10% are worth anythin.  And in that 10% you'll find about 1 in 5 are real engineers, the rest just now stuff.

Spot

You serious with that last post, SS?  Cause thinking back on your history here at BSB's, you're all of a sudden speaking a whole different tune then you ever have.

To further the oddity that is you, I don't think I've ever run into someone who claims to be so experienced and accomplished with magnums and their reloading, yet so strongly advises all who will listen against them.  Usually it's quite the opposite.  Those proficient with magnums fully understand what they have.  Rather than discouraging folks, they tend to try, by all means possible, to enourage and teach those wanting to experience the increased performance how it can accurately be accomplished.  I've seen none of this from you.  Ever.  Only complaint and criticism about the topic.  Makes me wonder   ...

However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, if you are actually reloading magnums for some of these poor souls, here's something to consider.  You're only doing half the job.  Loading for them and sending them on there way, then coming back here and bitching about it isn't doing anyone any good.  Take the next step and teach them how to shoot the magnum.

"I'm a victim of my own sucess"

I'm starting to think you're a victim of something alright.  What?  I'm not entirely sure.  But I figure it will surface sooner or later.  >>  klallen 

The proof lies with the person or persons making the claim NOT the person or persons doubting the claim!

"If anyone COULD prove that what Weatherby says about their actions then they could MAKE Weatherby rescind their claim of 200,000 CUP. So fellers get your engineering degrees out and your testing equipment and PROVE that Weatherby is lying. Until then the claim stands. I guess some of you will want a link to the Federal Trade Commission so here it is for facts for business section."  Maybe you should read your own post, I found it self explanatory.

"

Dan

KL,

   Read what I'm writin and not what yer thinkin I'm sayin'.

1)  Mag's are required fer dangerous game.

2)  Mag's are Optional (not required) on non-dangerous North American Game.

3)  On average more folks shooting a STW, will have problems then those shootin a 308.  Could be flinching, or just not shootin it enough to get use to it, this does happen with non-mag's but not as much.  Good shooters know how to shoot in all situations, not just from the bench. 

4)  Take it Down Straight (energy). - Wouldn't feel right takin a deer with a 223, although it's been done.  When I shoot something that has recoil due to a good amount of energy moving a large chunk of lead I know she's goin down tight.  35 drops them in their tracks, period.  And you know if from the bite on yer end.

5)  Mass vs. Distance -  I'd rather use that bite on my shoulder to get more lead going 2400 to 2700 fps, than gettin a lighter peice movin 3000+.  You can't make up fer mass.  I can however make up for distance.

6)  Percision shootin and natural shootin, are the only two I believe in.  Percision means LR, and exact shot placement.  Natural means you know the gun, round, and your reflexes enough to pull off tough shoots when you have to (like on a wounded runnin critter).

7)  We're all different, just cause one guy is good a somethin, don't mean everyone else is.  Let folks use their strenghts in life, and hunting.  Seek to understand, and remember we are one of  the good guy's. 

That's it KL, I wasn't kiddin about the shootin togehter, was about the competin, but I love shootin.  Just cause I don't advicate hunting with super mag's don't mean I don't get a kick out of shootin them now an again, or think thet you can't shoot them well.   

Spot

SS, I'm gonna exit this little discussion now.  Some of the generalities on your list are certainly agreeable; other opinions less so.  But I'll let it rest.

About the topic at hand, I simply do not believe you've got near the experience with magnums as you claim to have.  Wrong or right, from the things you post, it's a feeling I get.  No big deal.

However, I would encourage you to reread your #7 listing and take it to heart.  It's an interesting plea :

"We're all different, just cause one guy is good a somethin, don't mean everyone else is.  Let folks use their strenghts in life, and hunting.  Seek to understand, and remember we are one of  the good guy's"

Remember these words the next time me and you are involved in a longer range hunting discussion, SS.  Remember them when you're informing me that I an not a "real" hunter.  Remember them when you're informing me that I have no "hunting" skill.  Remember them as you're questioning my every method to justify my means.  I guarantee you, I will.

Have a good night.  >>  klallen

 KL,

   Good enough, #7 was a reminder to both of us.

 I try not condemin folks too much when I don't understand what and why their doing what their doin.  Of course this don't mean that I don't return fire, or pout when I get stiffed.  The only time I have been exposed to takin a shot at anything past 500 was when I was a kid and testing my skills, and in the military but I don't know if you'd classify thet as huntin either.  Anyhow, I have asked many "LR" hunters what LR hunting is, but never really get a response.  Guess they're tired of getting ripped on by others.  Like I said, I'm tryin to understand befer I seriously say anythin, only thing I can, or have spoke on is what I know from experience.  We'll leave it at that.

  If you ever get the chance, PM me on what LR huntin is like I said the goal ain't to flame ya, or call names.  Just to understand what your talkin 'bout, after that I'll probably ask a question or two.  I think you've already heard plenty of my opinions, 'en a man don't change cause others tell him somethin.   In either account enjoy what your doing!  Life's short -

spot

Damn . . . this thread has gone to "hell-in-a-handbasket!"  Close it down Tash . . . before we start shooting!  Besides, it takes an age to load now.  I almost forgot the original premise.  Oh yeah . . . something about "Western" rifles . . . man did we get away from that quick!  Have decided, after talking to Korey, that I want a 7mm STW with a Sightron scope.  Yep . . . that makes more sense than a Weatherby . . . 

Relax Jeff . . . no one is trying to make anyone mad . . . we have been taking "pot-shots" at each other for years.  I think most of us really like you because, even at your age, you have a lot of stated experience and a "hide" thick enough to roll with the punches.  Sometimes I get pissed at the hookum, and go on a sabbatical, but I usually get spammed with some e-mails and I end up getting back on.  These forums, BSB and Shooters, are a wealth of info . . . a wealth of BS too, but you can fight your way through that.  There are a few, a very few, "jerks" also.  They are hard to ignore . . . and I usually get suckered into trading barbs with them.  It is stupid for me to do that.  So . . . I TRY to ignore the one or two morons . . . wookies.  By the way, I am the one who started using that term, some years ago, on Shooters.  I used to mean it in a generic sense . . . now it has narrowed down to one or two persons . . . and they are qualified for moron status beyond all belief.

I am teasing you about the Rugers . . . NOT to make you mad . . . just for fun.  Just think how we would pick on you if you had a Savage . . . or a Weatherby!  I think the Rugers are excellent rifles, in spite of a lot of criticism by many people . . . especially on Shooters.  We have had a constant flow of trigger complaints, accuracy complaints, warranty complaints . . . you name it . . . but that has happened with just about every company except for Leupold . . . near as I remember.  I would LOVE to have a Model 77 in 7x57mm.  It may be a short-coming on my part, but I think that cartridge is just neat.

Get to loaf today . . . so I have to break my butt doing yard-work!  No classes until evening on Tuesday and Thursday.  Day classes AND night class on Monday and Wednesday.

Have a good day!

Guess i just havent been feeling like myself lately. Maybe it is going to school again. But  anywayz, apology accepted, once again  Me...Own a Savage BWAHAHAHAHAHA  

NH_Hunter

Hey NH-Hunter - I've owned Rugers and I like 'em! Currently only have one 77 left, an ole tangsafety in 7 x 57mm. Anyway, don't laugh too hard about Savages. Maybe they don't cost as much as other bolt rifles and can tend to be a bit plain and less "romantic" than say a pre-'64 Model 70, but they SHOOT! And they have a bit of a cult following!

Regards, Marcus.

I don't know, NH.  I got 4 different Ruger firearms and love each.  BUT (isn't there always a but    ), Savage is right there in appeal to me.  I've got 2 of them and will undoubtedly be getting more, over the years.  They flat out perform.  And not perty?????  Come on.  These little honey's aren't that hard on the eyes, are they?

I know their groups aren't    .  Take care.  >>  klallen

Geez Korey - You certainly are making me eat my words about Savages being a bit plain! Nice looking rifles!

Marcus.

Howdy Marcus  >>  Thanks.  Must have survived your weekend of baby-setting the superstars in fine fashion, huh?

Post above was directed to our young NH.  I'd sure hate for his "elitiest" (sp) attitude to keep him away from some extremely nice shooting rifles.  Especially when he talks about being on a budget and such.  I can think of no better make of rifle for a fella who's trying to stretch the dollar than a Savage.  You're "plain jane" and "less romantic" comments towards Savage are spot on.  In general, they're a rifle that shoots far better then they have any business shooting.  That's what draws me to them.

Plus you can doll the little buggers up nicely, if you so desire.  I love the way the 12FV turned out.  Take it easy.  >>  korey   

Yeah but . . . c'mon Korey . . . the bolt handle is in the wrong place . . . looks like it is falling off the back . . . and what is that "nut" around the barrel?      Aah . . . the traditional Savage complaints.  Mostly hookum.  Savage is a fine shooter!  Wonder if they ever thought about "up-grading" some of those complaints?  I guess you would have to redesign it.  Better not mess with it . . . it shoots.

Although, they sure went for a better trigger assembly.  Sounds like they listen

I dont see any barrel nut, i guess the pic just isnt large enough. Hey Klallen, i would much rather have a Savy than a Remington. I will never give up my hatred of the Remington. They compete with Ruger too much and they made the 710  and the 600  and the 660  and the 673  and the mountain rifle thingy . How could they make such ugly rifles and win my respect! They also seem to need to many aftermarket parts . If my dad would let me buy Savages i would have owned a lefty .308 for about a year and a half.  They dont look bad, its just i cant get them.

NH_Hunter

I'm reposting this because I hate to let it die as it was such an issue with a couple of posters on this site. It has to be one of two things, either no one called them or they called them and didn't like what they had to say about the 200,000#. As I always said put up or shut up, looks like they have shut up. But then I knew they would.

"Weatherby made the claim and I'm calling them on it. Here's their telephone number 805-466-1767,  Knock yourself out proving me wrong!

i must have missed a post or something. what was the final verdict?

did they explain where the 200,000# BS came from? or did they just refer you to marketing and leave it at that? if so, what did marketing have to say?

I called Weatherby at the telephone number I posted. I first talked to a rather nice gentleman in the tech department, who said clearly he thought it should be removed from the Weatherby Internet site. After me continuly asking him what he knew about the action testing procedures he finally transferred me to another gentleman who had been with the firm for 30 years. He insisted he know who I was and why I wanted to know before he would even talk to me, so I told him. He said he didn't know of any tests at all actually run on the actions, even when they changed manufacturers. The theory is if the metal and the heat treating remain consistent the actions are safe to make a rifle with. Furthermore, he thought the 200,000# was not CUP but the strength of the steel they were using to make the action. The highest cup in current testing is 70,000 CUP or 84,000 PSI and is done with a proof load of 130%  of the maximum SAAMI pressure for that cartridge. He also told me he was a gun crank and loved to shoot and has hunted all over the world. I asked him straight forward, would you shoot a Weatherby with a 100,000 pound cartridge in it and he said not a chance. He told me he was going to bring it to Ed Weatherby's attention and try to resolve the question. He said he was sure the ads would be reworded.

Dan

    I gotta get into this one. When i am at the range (every weekend) I watch people shoot and this is what I have learned . Remember there are exceptions to all rules. If someone is trying to learn to shoot with a magnum as a 1st rifle they are probably making a mistake. Some guy thats bull headed and won't listen to the guys around him who can show him the targets with the holes close together just does.nt have the proper attitude to be a good shooter. we all (well most of us anyway) know the basic fundmentels of good shooting. Its harder to concentrait and not anticipate when you are getting kicked in return. But on the other hand if you practice any thing gets easier. But even so after I shoot 15 or 20 rounds with my .338 win, my groups open a bit. (that does'nt mean yours will) My opinion is that most experenced shooters can shoot a magnum as well as a standard. (at least for awhile.) But a guy who doesnt shoot much is more likly to master the techniques with a rifle he is comfortable shooting. And cause I hate muzzle breaks it probably means a standard cartridge. But with experience a mag is a good investment. I must say that laser range finders and Mildot reticles have made long range shooting practcle for a lot more of us, but if you want down range energy you need power at the muzzle.

 ...tj3006

Lawdog wrote:   D.F.C., Sorry pal BUT the burden of proof is in YOUR COURT. YOU MUST prove what Weatherby is saying is wrong. This means get some of the actions and then a good non-bias laboratory to do the testing. Post the results and IF you are right I'll be the first to join your bandwagon. Just making phone calls doesn't cut it. Until I see proof test results from a lab, what Weatherby says is the truth. I want to see it done the right way. Have the tests done and post the results here.  Lawdog

Dan

Well D.F.C. as you stated "get your lazy ass in gear" and prove Weatherby wrong?  So far all you have done is prove how much credit to give to any postings you do in the future.  Lawdog

Lawdog wrote:   Well D.F.C. as you stated "get your lazy ass in gear" and prove Weatherby wrong?  So far all you have done is prove how much credit to give to any postings you do in the future.  Lawdog

Anyone with any common sense at all can see thru people like you. It appears you know little or close to nothing about the subject at hand. That would be the ability of an action to handle pressure.

Not for you, but for other readers on this board I will make this statement, and I might add I got it from a Weatherby representative. It is impossible to subject any bolt action rifle action to 200,000 CUP. The threads holding the barrel to the action and the OD of the action in the threaded area will not stand anything over 100,000 PSI without damage, that doesn't mean catastrophic failure, just failure.  Still waiting for that picture of the 223WSSM. LOL

Dan