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Which dies and how many???? |
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle
Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Topic: Which dies and how many????Posted: 08 December 2004 at 07:00 |
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Ok folks, it looks like I'll just get the RCBS kit in the Cabelas catalog and a set of calipers. I thought I knew a little about the dies but I didn't realize how little it was. I plan to reload 243, 270win, 7MM Rem, 300 Ultra and my 338Win. I want to get the same performance as the Federal and Winchester Supreme ammo I have been buying. I don't need really hot loads or more than what I have been getting from the factory stuff but I do want it to be very consistent. All of my guns shoot better than I do so I want to be as consistent as possible with the reloads. I figured to weigh every powder charge and seat each bullet to give me the same OAL for each round. I would appreciate info on the dies I will need for reloading for decapping, sizing, etc.. All of my reloads will be from my once fired factory brass.
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Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired.
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Gunrunner
.416 Rigby
** Forest Grump ** Joined: 05 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1970 |
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 08:06 |
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Let's see. You need a die set for each caliber. They usually come in either a 2 die set or a 3 die set. The included dies are the sizer/decapper and bullet seater. The 3 die set usually includes a neck sizer/ decapper. Most companies don't include a shellholder in the set. You won't need a shellholder for each caliber. Some fit many calibers, it just depends on the size of the case rim. For instance my Redding #1 shellholder works for 270, 308 and 22-250. There are a lot of fancy dies that have different sized neck bushings, micrometer knobs on top, and so forth. I've never tried any of those, and have had good luck from the regular sets. I really like the Redding 2 die sets. Well made, easy to use, and not that expensive. |
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Somebody better call the Secret Service. Let 'em know there's an illegal alien in the White House...and it ain't the cook!!
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Ranch 13
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Joined: 02 June 2004 Location: Guernsey Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 09:09 |
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Like gunrunner said you'll need a set of dies for each cartridge. The 243 and 270 can share the same shell holder , as can the 7mag and the 338. I've been using alot of the Hornady dies lately and really like them, but I used the RCBS dies for many years and got along just fine. I tried some of the lee dies and they were ok, but need a better lock ring, so by the time you buy a proper lock ring there wasn't any money saved. |
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The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 09:22 |
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I highly recommend RCBS dies, life-time warranty. I'd suggest a scale and a Lyman 55 powder measure. You only need check every 5th or 10th dropped charge, and maintain a constant height in the powder tube to get good accuracy. A thought. Not everyone likes to reload, like golf and other things. Why not buy one set of RCBS dies and the related shell holder. Buy the die set for the rifle you shoot the most. Start reloading and shooting that cartridge to see if you like it, and to get the experience. You can always buy the other cartridge dies later? The 243, 338 and the 270 are easy to reload for, the 7mm and the 300 Ultra are not difficult either. But starting with the 243 will let you develop a varmint load, a target load and a deer load. A pretty good start. If you buy the kit, you should get a manual....READ THE MANUAL COMPLETELY. Trust the manual more than friends if there is a conflict in directions. There is a lot of bad advise floating around. As on this board if you don't understand something. If some one here gives you bad/dangerous advise you will immediately see a herd of flamers attack the poor advise and get right. This is a big advantage from a jury system that is provided on this board. BEAR
Edited by BEAR |
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle
Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 10:04 |
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Bear, I figured to go into reloading more for the savings than the fun. I go through up to 2000 rounds a year for various clients, personal hunts and seasonal practice. I have come to trust the Premium loads over the standard loadings and my personnal and customer use rifles all shoot the higher priced stuff with greater accuracy and the bullets in the premium stuff have given better results year after year. If I have a client who I recommend shooting a 270Win with a TBBC because we are at ranges of 75 to 150 yards then I have to pay the premium prices for ammo. Most of my hunts are generally windy, medium range and hopefully with a large animal for specie. This usually requires a tough bullet that has good accuracy. By the time the customer fires 10 or 12 rounds for practice I have enough for 2 magazine loads and then it's another 30 bucks for the next box of ammo. Gotta save money where I can and for some reason the majority of clients today feel that the outfitter/guide should provide the gun, instruction and reload for his customers needs. I have told them that I use the best factory ammo that you can buy but they are told, and believe, that the reloaded ammo is usually a better option. We will see. If nothing else I want to buy the best equipment available so I can sell it quickly if I get out of the reloading business. Believe it or not I calculated my ammo costs for last years guided hunts and it was a little over 800$ for 33 hunts. I figure I can reload for a lot less than that. It's not the rounds I'm trying to save, it's the dollars. Thanks for the input and keep 'em in the Tenring. Jim
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dakotasin
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a TRUE brother-in-arms! Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4099 |
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 10:37 |
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the 7 rem, 338 win, and 300 ultra are going to require the use of extruded powders, which do not meter well at all, therefore giving you inconsistent charge weights. strongly advise you to get a trickler, too, as they are only $10 or so, and will save you lots of headache. you may also get some good use out of the rcbs hand-primer - but that is not a must-purchase. handloaded ammo is far and away better than factory garbage, if the handloader takes the time to make it so. meaning, you will spend a little time doing nothing but experimenting w/ many, or even all, of the variables that make up accuracy and velocity. this is going to mean that your start-up costs are going to be pretty high as you weed thru the various components that don't work well. all powders are not equal even if they have extremely close burn rates. the good news... once you get your load established, it is a simple process to duplicate it, and crank out hundreds or even thousands of the same load - meaning you won't have change anything until your rifle's throats start burning out, or you become dissatisfied w/ the load. keep good, detailed notes for each rifle, and you should have no trouble accomplishing your objectives. but, you won't save money for awhile - the start-up costs, the bullet and powder experimentation will probably actually cost you more money for the first year, maybe 2. after that, you will reap the economic advantages. |
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Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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Ranch 13
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Joined: 02 June 2004 Location: Guernsey Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 10:52 |
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If you plan on reloading for your clients rifles I'ld suggest sticking with the factory ammo. A reload that works well in one rifle might shoot a pattern closer to improved cylinder in another. Not to mention that a load that shows no pressure indications in one gun may loosen the primers in someone elses. And unless you full length resize each case , a case fired in one rifle may not chamber in another. |
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The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Triggerguard
.416 Rigby
aka The San Antonio Terminator Joined: 13 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2212 |
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Posted: 08 December 2004 at 11:08 |
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More for the savings trhan the fun!?
ROTHFLMAO! Good Luck! I don't think anyone in the history of reloading has saved any money at it. You can create better ammunition, you can taylor a load for a specific rifle, you can load for an obsolete or obsolecent cartridge, you can shoot more for the same amount of money, but you aren't likely to save any money at it. |
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"...A moral compass needs a butt end.Whatever direction France is pointing-towards collaboration with Nazis, accomodation with communists,...we can go the other way with a quiet conscience"-O'Rourke
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Posted: 09 December 2004 at 08:27 |
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Most of us got into reloading for the savings. But with Walmart prices that is reduced. If you are firing in different rifles the headspace and bullet/throat advantages of reloading are lost. You should load to SAMI specs for OAL. A word of caution. IF reloading saves you half, that is $400 dollars. REALLY not a lot of money when you consider two factors: (1) As a reloader/ammo seller you are exposing your self to HIGH risk. Any alleged ammo accident will be your fault......PERIOD. Trust me you will be cooked like a goose in any civil action. Your normal liability policy will not cover your new manufacturing operation; and the new insurance premium would be more like $10,000. I know you will not be making any mistakes, but any injury will put you out of business and take all your business asset. (2) Most hunters don't like to shoot other people's reloads. Any misses will be blamed upon YOUR ammo. You business will suffer and clients will be unhappy. In simple terms, when you figure Your the time and $$$ involved you will be way behind. Trust me! I'd suggest you pick a premium brand of ammo and tell your client to bring 2 boxes (you can have extra available should it be needed). This transferrers to cost to the client, but assures you will have ammo available.
BEAR
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Ranch 13
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Joined: 02 June 2004 Location: Guernsey Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Posted: 09 December 2004 at 10:55 |
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Tenring just what kind of deal are you running that you buy the ammo for the clients anyway? Never heard of that happening. I've had to loan a rifle once inawhile when someones broke , but never thought of buying them ammo.
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The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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Dave Skinner
.416 Rigby
AKA "Fast Eddie" Joined: 13 June 2003 Location: Albania Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Posted: 09 December 2004 at 18:36 |
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Tenring, I back BEAR completely on not reloading for your clients. You'll eventually have lawyers down your neck. I suppose you could have them sign a release, offer them factory or reloads with a release, but the attorney factor is real and I'm not sure if I want to go there. I wouldn't. Only my best buds shoot my super-duper reloads that I work up for their rifles. And that's contingent on they load the rest after the magic load has been found. Maybe you should charge a profit for each box of ammo and buy in bulk from Shotgun News or something. Then it wouldn't hurt you. |
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Up hills slow, down hills fast, tonnage first and safety last
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Rob1
.416 Rigby
** The Walnut Whisperer ** Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Vatican City State Status: Offline Points: 3413 |
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Posted: 10 December 2004 at 02:27 |
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I could never imagine not using my own rifle on a hunt unless local laws of a different country didn't allow it. Where are you hunting?
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Tenring
.22 LongRifle
Joined: 16 January 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: 10 December 2004 at 03:24 |
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I run a full outfitter service, "OutdoorAdventures", and I guide/Outfit for hunts in Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas and Tennessee. Probably 50% of my clients use rifles and shotguns that I provide. Most arrive with nothing but the camo I recommend they have. Most folks think that all guided hunts are for the folks you see on TV and that the clients all have 2000$ rifles and all the gear they need. Reality is that the majority of my hunts are for husband and wife or maybe Dad and a child. Dad often has a good rifle or shotgun but when they ask me what type of gun to get the child or ask for a gun recommendation for themselves to buy I tell them not to buy anything. I let them shoot the rifles and shotguns I have available and they can use them on the hunt and practice with them before the hunt. If they like the guns fit, feel, accuracy and performance in the field then they can buy that model if they choose. Most of my clients hunt once or twice a year at most and they do not want to keep a battery of guns for hunting. As for the legal ramifications, I don't foresee any problems because I will make sure the loads are below max loads and I'll always shoot the load first to determine it's performance. I won't load for a clients gun, ever! I'll just have a load for a few of my loaner guns. I believe that if I weigh each charge and carefully check each load that I would have less risk than mass produced factory loads. As for the insurance, I know my business insurance won't cover the reloading but I'll do that out of my home anyway. The liability issue doesn't bother me because if they shoot any gun with any ammo on any hunt guided by me then I am liable, period. They may be able to sue an ammo or gun manufacturer also but I will still be named in the suit, so I believe that if I control the gun, ammo and conditions then I should be accountable for the safety and welfare of my clients. If I wouldn't do it myself I wouldn't allow a client to do it. That's just my take and I still think reloading will save me a lot over the next few years. TR
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Posted: 13 December 2004 at 02:32 |
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Lets assume that somehow you miss a powder charge. It happens. A client shoots the squib load and the bullet moves 2 inches into the barrel. In the excitement of the hunt, he/she loads another round thinking they didn't' put the 1st cartridge in. BANG. Bad news for the client. IF you had the same accident with factories, you would have no liability. If you were sued (and you are right you would be) they would be going after the manufacture (deep pockets) and you would not pay a dime. Lots of liability for minimum savings! BEAR PS I'd still recommend RCBS |
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