The BaitShop Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > FireArms, et cetera > Shotguns, Shotgun Ammunition and Shotshell Reloading
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - How many coats?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

This site is completely supported by donations; there are no corporate sponsors. We would be honoured if you would consider a small donation, to be used exclusively for forum expenses.



Thank you, from the BaitShop Boyz!

How many coats?
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
The_Mountaineer View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
** West BY-GOD Virginian! **

Joined: 02 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2653 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Mountaineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How many coats?
    Posted: 13 February 2011 at 13:53

Got a DIY project going on as we speak.

Old P.O.S. single shot 12 ga., basically an off-brand H&R topper style.  Fixing it on the cheap and will supply pics when its finished.

So far, got the DIY metalwork done - i.e., re-bluing w/ birchwood casey cold blue (yeah, yeah, I know the Brownell's Oxpho is better but this is something I'm just cutting my teeth on).

Anyways, got the walnut sanded and cleaned up nice.  Already been rubbing Birchwood Casey's standard gun stock oil on it.  Going for a nice shiny appearance but the instructions say to lightly buff with steel wool.  This knocks the shine down immediately.  So, I quit doing that.

I'm on my 3rd rub down of stock oil.  Directions say to keep doing it till the wood is sealed and finish is achieved.  Also says to buy their stock wax?

Question:  How many coats should I expect to put on this?  Allowing at least 24 hrs between hand-rubbed coats using nothing more than my fingers.

Also, should I go with the stock wax for a high sheen or should the standard oil work just fine?
Paritur pax bello - Peace is obtained by war.
Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8029 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2011 at 14:02

I refinished a stock on a Model 70 Featherweight for my daughter. I put 20 coats on it. It looks good, Very good. That being said, I don't think it needed that many coats. I think 10 would have been ok, but this was a gun I had rebarreled for my daughters first hunting rifle and wanted it to be perfect.

When I was done I put carnuba car wax on it. I guess it worked. It looks good.

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
Rockydog View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 13 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3191 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2011 at 14:17

Montaineer, The last one I did I used 50/50 oil and mineral spirits for the first 2 coats applied with automotive type wet or dry sand paper. Working it up until I had a little walnut sludge going. Then I hand rubbed it across the grain and finally wiped off the excess across the grain. Then I did a couple of coats with 75/25 oil and ms. and sandpaper. Then a couple of coats with 100% oil using the paper. Always sanding with the grain and wiping across the grain to fill pores. After those six coats I rubbed straight oil on by hand for two more coats wiping the first coat and not wiping the second. My stock came out very shiny but has a few bubbles in the finish. I suspect dust settling on the finish as it dries. Almost forgot. 48 hours between coats. RD 

 



Edited by Rockydog
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
Back to Top
Irish Bird Dog View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
Too many

Joined: 01 March 2009
Location: Midwest
Status: Offline
Points: 5574 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2011 at 17:34
Sounds like a good project Mountaineer..I did same to an old Win M37 SS 50 yrs ago & still have that shotgun....they used good walnut on plain guns back then....I used Tru-Oil for my stock finish, applied with bare hands, then rubbed with pumice and gun oil & more Tru-Oil by hand....several coats til it was what looked good to me.  Drying time was however long it took me to get back to the project....did use B/C gun stock wax for final coat. But it can wear off in wet weather conditions....snow, rain....where you carry the stock in your hand....needs reapplication over the years....now days I don't really want a "shine" but would rather have a "satin" type non shiny look so as not to be so reflective to game.
Irish Bird Dog

NRA Life/Endowment

2nd Amendment Supporter
Back to Top
The_Mountaineer View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
** West BY-GOD Virginian! **

Joined: 02 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2653 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Mountaineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2011 at 00:38

Thanks for the input fellas!

The final product, even if I quit now, will be a lot better than when I started out.  Dang thing had the recoil pad duct taped on if that tells you anything

It ain't even my gun!  A cousin of mine asked if I wanted to work on it.  I said I would use it as a trial learning project and promised nothing fancy or professional.  He didn't care, "anything's better than what it is now!"

With that I sanded everything and did the cold bluing and recoil pad installation (I did cheat and have a gunsmith do the recoil pad).  Now I'm at the wood finishing stage and since it is a better piece of walnut than a lot of new guns have as Bird Dog pointed out, I wanted that to look pretty good. 

Asked my gunsmith about it, as he's done some stocks for me in the past, and he used nothing but Birchwood Casey Tru Oil.  Didn't ask about the wax though.  His results were great and shiny just like I'm going for.  So, guess I'll keep working on the stock as is.  Think I'll shoot for at least a dozen coats if not more.  Also been swirling the oil in then following up along the grain.  Directions say to always work with the grain but I feel I'll just miss some spots.  Might end up knocking the finish down with some steel wool since that might help seal the stock as Rocky done with the sanding.  Plus, it might even out the finish, no bubbles.

I'll keep ya posted but I'll be working on this a bit longer I suspect!
Paritur pax bello - Peace is obtained by war.
Back to Top
Wing master View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
AKA StraightShooter

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8029 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2011 at 15:07

If you knock down with steel wool between coats, be sure to get ALL of the little steel wool dust off before putting the next coat of oil on. If you dont it will be in the finish.

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
Back to Top
CB900F View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Honor, Integrity

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Eritrea
Status: Offline
Points: 8857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2011 at 15:50

Moutaineer;

I'm not the woodworking guy on this site.  That's fer damn sure!  But, I seem to recall that rottenstone is what you want to use instead of steel wool.

900F
Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
Back to Top
Irish Bird Dog View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
Too many

Joined: 01 March 2009
Location: Midwest
Status: Offline
Points: 5574 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2011 at 18:43
Originally posted by CB900F CB900F wrote:

Moutaineer;

I'm not the woodworking guy on this site.  That's fer damn sure!  But, I seem to recall that rottenstone is what you want to use instead of steel wool.

900F



that's what I said....only I called it pumice..... = rottenstone.......900F, YOU must be an old cogger to know what rottenstone is
Irish Bird Dog

NRA Life/Endowment

2nd Amendment Supporter
Back to Top
The_Mountaineer View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
** West BY-GOD Virginian! **

Joined: 02 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2653 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Mountaineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2011 at 13:53

Good idea.

Seems that on my 3rd coat I'm picking up some grit.  Suppose I can always take it out with something else, perhaps pumice.  Still, directions be directions and I've been following them since I really don't know WTH I'm doing!  As directions say, lightly buff w/ steel wool and then wipe clean.  Directions ain't working to my satisfaction so we'll see.  Wonder if anybody has pumice locally?
Paritur pax bello - Peace is obtained by war.
Back to Top
Irish Bird Dog View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
Too many

Joined: 01 March 2009
Location: Midwest
Status: Offline
Points: 5574 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2011 at 17:38
"Wonder if anybody has pumice locally?"

Paint store or hardware store??
Irish Bird Dog

NRA Life/Endowment

2nd Amendment Supporter
Back to Top
CB900F View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Honor, Integrity

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Eritrea
Status: Offline
Points: 8857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2011 at 13:42

Mountaineer;

Or Brownell's, part #083-039-008.  Eight ounces of the stuff, shipping included will be under a twenty dollar bill.

They call it rottenstone too.  Ipso-facto, Brownell's must be older than dirt.

 900F
Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
Back to Top
Kingpin View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
aka Old IronSides

Joined: 01 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 11716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kingpin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2011 at 11:18
Not known for being a wood man, you can wet sand it if you thin some of your oil to almost water. Wet sanding fills pores quick, Don't use anything finer than 320 grit, and let it dry before attacking it with 0000 steel wool between coats. It works fine and if more polish is required after the pores are filled, use a good grade of automotive rubbing compound.This will smooth and shine it to an exhibition grade shine. Just be careful to use a soft cloth when using the compound, and be VERY careful not to rub through the finish you applied. You asked how many coats, probably, about 6-8 coats as long as you wet sand it between coats. One more thing, I hope you did all your sanding while it was on the gun and before you cold (eeeew) blued it. Lots of guys try that trick on nothing but the stock, but all the corners are broken and very ill fitting where the stock dips below the metal AND recoil pad....................................Kingpin
There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Back to Top
Peterbh View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1008 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peterbh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2011 at 14:55

Hope this copies:

Gunstock Finishing

hiatt02_102499.jpg 59675 bytes

by Peter B. Hiatt
Peterb@coinet.com

Finishing is really the fun part of completing a gunstock, but the preparation work is 95% of stock finishing. We are assuming at this point that the inletting has been finished. The most important thing at this point is to remember that the wood has no resistance to moisture entering the stock. The opposite is also true. If the inletter is in a wet area and you are in a dry area, the wood can shrink away from the metal if unprotected too long. I recommend a diluted form of your final finish on the interior of the wood, under the butt, wood screw holes, and through-bolt hole, if present. Don't apply too thickly or the wood will not fit back into the metal and more scraping and refinishing will be required. So firstly apply a thinned coat to the interior areas and do it quickly! Next is going back to prep work. Shotgun stocks are much easier to work on than rifle stocks, because there are many more areas on a rifle stock that can have unique little designs like side panels, snobbles, shadow lines, wild cheek pieces, etc. They make interesting and neat guns but many of the adornments are simply to show the artistic and craftsmanship merits of the stockmaker. Another way to show excellent craftsmanship is to leave sharp lines EVERYWHERE! They really add to the look of quality of craftsmanship in a gun but, unfortunately, have a tremendous affinity for anything that can bump and bruise. In opposition to this, a great shotgun stock finishing job is dependant upon fine wood to metal fit and wood to metal not being proud of each other. Now some commercial stockmakers (including a David McKay-Brown I saw at the last Vegas show) leave the wood higher than the metal. Their usual explanation is that it gives room for the eventual refinish job to be flush to the metal. This is, of course, CRAP since the refinish job may be 75 years from now. It is simply much easier to finish without being flush to the metal. This does not mean that you should have to stoop this low. About the only area on a shotgun stock that allows sharp lines are the flutes between the grip and start of the cheek area on the stock. I suggest wrapping sandpaper around a wooden dowel and following the stroke in the exact direction each time. The result is a sharp and classy look. The next thing I do is to make a 1/8 inch line with a soft lead pencil all around the areas where the wood touches the metal. This is to help avoid cutting away too much wood making the metal proud of the wood. I do not sand these areas with the heavier grits. I wait until the last sanding before I finish this strip giving little chance removing too much wood. If it should happen, you can gradually build up the area with successive layers of finish.

SANDING
I shall not tell you NOT to use a power finish sander. However, if your stock has a soft area (like many Turkish blanks) or a fiddleback pattern with alternate hard and soft areas, a finish sander with a soft, felt face will sand the softer areas deeper than the harder areas. You will wind up with a high and low ripple pattern as often seen on $30K Piotti's. Simply crappy looking! On these woods, a hard-faced hand sanding block is your only choice. For sanding grit size, unless the stock returns from the inletter-turner in very rough shape, I prefer to use no coarser than 150 grit to start my sanding. If the stock has a pistol or semi-pistol grip that requires hand sanding, remember that the hand sanded area will have a coarser finish than power sanded areas with the same grit paper. Use finer paper to finish in these areas. If your double rifle or (shudder) shotgun has a cheekpiece, the easiest way to sand the sloping area is to cut a ¾"-1" strip of sandpaper and place the thumb with pressure on top of the sandpaper and area to be sanded and pull the paper with the thumb remaining stationary. It gets a bit warm but is very effective so suffer a bit. If your gun is in the white, you can finish sand with the wood on the metal. Now the prep work is over, and it is time for finish. The two basic questions remaining are whether to finish with the pad on or off and what finish to use. I finish a through-bolt stock with the pad off since it has to be removed to install the stock, anyway. I finish a non through-bolt stock with the pad on. A stock with a poor fitting pad looks like crap. You often see it on custom stockmaker's custom presentation guns that are often refinished due to scratches in use or show dings. It just doesn't look classy. Carefully tape the pad when applying finish.

WHAT TYPE OF FINISH?
The strongest finish against bumps and bruises is a two-part epoxy like Fullerplast which was used on Weatherby guns. It is a one-coat finish but quite thick and not classy looking. The same is true of the plastic Urethane finishes. Wax is an adequate finish on exotic woods with extremely high oil content. Most finishes will not permanently stick to these finishes although Fullerplast seems to work well on them. For oil finishes, the old standard was Linseed oil which is, frankly, a horrible product. It darkens with age and hides the beauty of finely figured wood. It does not adequately harden and does a very poor job of protecting the wood from moisture. It gives only 1/3 the moisture intrusion protection of Tru-Oil. The age old advise is to apply a coat a day for a week, a coat a week for a month, a coat a month for a year, and a coat a year FOREVER! I hate Tung oil even worse than Linseed oil. It must be applied in extremely small amounts and let completely dry for a long time before any more is added over it. Otherwise, it will turn from a seemingly hard finish to a sticky mess when the weather warms up. My favorite is Tru-Oil (the favorite of the Italian gunmakers). It is a plastic with the properties of oil. It dries quickly, provides excellent moisture protection, gives a classic thin and beautiful finish, and can be finished either matte or satin. Please never use stain or filler. It looks like crap, ruins the look of fine wood, and is difficult to refinish.

THEE FINAL ACT
My first coat is applied with thinning agent to soak as deeply into the wood as possible. After drying, I rub with 0000 steel wool and then blow and wipe the stock free of any steel particles. I apply the next coat VERY thickly and then SMEAR it when it becomes tacky. This helps seal the pores quickly. 0000 steel wool again removes all the finish that has not bonded to the wood. The secret to using the steel wool is to REMOVE ALL OF THE FINISH! That which has bonded into the wood and filled the pores remains. I repeat the thick, smeared coat again then steel wool again after it dries. A couple of more normal coats and all the pores should be filled. Steel wool is used between EVERY coat. By this time, you will have seen your stock with both satin and matte finishes several times and will know what you prefer on this particular stock. Checkering is done after the last coat…except you will add a thinned coat to the checkered area only after the checkering is finished. Voila! Many people have favorite finishes but, in my experience, it is less the type of finish that works well and more the individually learned techniques to apply them that is important (and often not told in adequate terms). Most finishes have hardening agents in them. A partially empty can allows air to harden a surface film which you crack open the next time you use it. After a while, the hardening agents get used up in this film and the finish will no longer harden in an acceptable period of time. A good BBS hint is to add marbles to the can to raise the level of the liquid to the top so that no air is present. Spray finish gets away from this problem and the average size Tru-oil can is adequate for about two stocks.

A Walnut Sampler

How to choose a gunstock blank

Gunstock Finishing

The Proper Drying of GunStock Blanks
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2011 at 15:21

Peter that doesn't look like and H&R????Wink

Beautiful
Back to Top
Peterbh View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1008 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peterbh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2011 at 18:05
It is for a Browning Superposed 20 ga. It is a grafted piece of Claro and English walnut. Here is another piece
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.077 seconds.