Well, I walked out of the gunshow with a set of dies,1 box of 40 grain Hornady VMax and 1 box of Sierra 40 grain Blitzking.I know starting and max loads with BL-C(2) which is what I plan to feed this cartridge.If somebody could give me Sierra`s recomended OAL for the Blitzking I would appreciate it.I have Sierra`s fiftieth anniversary edition reloading manual and the only thing listed in 40 gr is the Hornet and the 40 grain HP.

The kid busted me for 50 peices of Win brass for his .243 at gunshow prices.But at least he has plenty of brass to prep and work with .That oughta keep him out of  my hair for fifteen or 20 minutes...

I bought me a few hundred Win SR primers to start with.I figure I`ll get on Midway tonight and see about 500 peices of Winchester or Hornady brass.I`ve never really paid attention to small rifle brass prices...Any advice from you fellas who load this cartridge is appreciated.

Gene

Ghost, you know how to load to the throat?

I'm asking because the recommended official OAL for 223 Rem is 2.260 which is way short of the rifling in most all rifles. I had my newest pipe custom chambered with a shortie throat and I am STILL not able to get down to 2.260.

Winchester brass should be fine for you. I haven't used HDY but I expect it is just fine.

Regarding initial prep, it is probably a good idea to go ahead and run every case through a sizing die first, then trim them ALL to the same length (officially 1.75, max length 1.76), chamfer the neck and deburr, and THEN go ahead and prime them and load.

It won't be necessary to put the sizing die all the way down. The idea here is to get the necks all with the same squeeze and feel your way through the lot, you can detect defects sometimes just by the way the case feels as you size it. 

Boring as hell, but you will then have your case lot all the "same." If, over time, you shoot through all of them, then clean them all, then reload them all so they wind up with the "same" shots fired over time, then you won't have to trim or CHECK for trim, every case. Just a representative handful.

You don't necessarily need to shoot the same load, just so long as the overall use cycles are consistent.

Right now I am on my seventh "lap" through my Win lot and they are doing just peachy. Couple more and they will be ready for another trim, possibly annealing, but so far they are holding up great and shooting just as well. 

Evening TIMBER  >>  Can't help ya with that bullet weight, but I'm using BLC2 in my .223 with the 75 gr. A-Max's.  I do like the velocity it's allowing me.  Didn't think I'd be tip-toeing around that 3000 fps range with this heavy a bullet, but it's doing so easy enough.  CCI 450's are the primer used.

My O.A.L. is 2.515" for my last batch of reloads.  Throat on my 12 FV is certainly a long bugger.  Handy for the heavier bullets.

I did have a light load worked up some time back using a 37 gr. Calhoon DHP, but the powder used was H335 so that wouldn't help either.  Anyway, good luck to ya with your reloading !!!  >>  klallen

Good luck with the load work Timber.I only run 52's and up in my 1:9 so I'm not much help.

Bench Mark 2 powder works really well in all 223's I have seen.So it may be worth a try.

Macca

Dave, yes sir.I know how to load for the throat.Thanks for the information,I will put it to use.I put the caliper on a factory Hornady cartridge last night.2.242" was factory oal.I made a dummy cartridge at 2.358" oal and the Weatherby chambers it fine.No stiffness closing the bolt but the bullet is way out there in the neck.I mean way out there.That is not bad at all but I need to do some testing with feeding the rifle.One shot is ok but I have run up against 2 yotes more than once so I want to be able to feed the rifle fast and try to drill the second dog befor it escapes me.I`ve come close to it with the first dog hit at 250 yards , second dog was already on the run when I picked him up in the crosshairs.I was slinging gravel all over him out to about 335 yards ...but no hit.That is more the shooter`s fault though.I`ve put the gun on paper to 300 yards and it does it`s job fine.

Klallen, fantastic velocity.I am glad to hear that with this powder.I want to be about 3600 fps or better if I can get it, but I demand accuracy for this cartridge.I mean I really need it.This is my go to gun to fuel my obsession with being the coyotes worst nightmare.Your oal sounds about right, I am nowhere near the lands with the dummy cartridge I made .But the 1 in 14" twist in my rifle will screw me if I try to go to heavy a bullet.I may be wrong,I`ve never fired that heavy a bullet in it.Might need to experiment a bit more.Macca, thanks for the weigh in on the Benchmark powder.I hope it is going to work with BL-C(2).I only have about 20 peices of Hornady brass to begin with but that should suffice for load trials.Waksupi also speaks highly of BL-C(2) in the .223 Rem so it will be a good start.

Thanks for info fellas and anybody else that cares to weigh in with advice for a cherry small bore loader I appreciate it...

Gene

Hey GR, I`ve been shooting some loads today.

I started with the 40 gr Sierra Blitzking.Load started at 26 grains of BLC2.Accuracy sucked.At 27 grains it sucked at 27.5 it began to tighten at 28 it is slightly under one inch.At 28.5 it yielded a nice clover leaf of .62" in a 10-15 mile an hour wind trying to shoot between the big gusts.Extraction is easy, but the primer shows very very mild results of starting to flatten.Waksupi,you were right.Glad I paid attention to your posts about the little .223

Anyone that reads this particular load and wants to duplicate it, please start low and workup .I am .2 grains over Sierra`s max load.The case is full.It is not what I would call a whopping compressed load but it is close enough.Things look great in my rifle but that doesn`t mean so in yours.I dont want it on my conscious that somebody lost an eye,wrecked a good rifle or worse.Be safe about it... as I am working this load for a particular purpose and a rifle with a 1 in 14" twist with a 23.5 inch barrel.

Specs for this load are;

Hornady once fired brass.Trim is at 1.75"

Bullet:Sierra 40 grain Blitzking

My oal is NOT by the book at 2.248"

Winchester SR primers to set it off.

I am new at handloading these small cases so anybody interested in and wanting to duplicate this load, I reiterate be careful.I looked up pressure and this little booger is about 45,400 CUP.

I am gonna load me 10 or so at my smallest group load and set them aside for a good evening with no wind and shoot again , hopefully I can tighten my group to at least .50" but at .62'  IT IS DEFINATELY SHOWING COYOTE WASTING ABILITY..

Have a good day.

Gene

Fella's;

For those of you shooting the .223, I have hundreds or maybe thousands of small rifle primers.  If you need some, give me a holler.  'Cause I don't have a .223 to shoot.

900F

Hey CB, Can you privately ship primers through UPS?I have no clue

I have always bought my primers from the gunshop in Temple.If any of these fellas here are close to you that use SR primers they oughta jump on that offer.That is mighty kind of ya.

On another note I went ahead and loaded me some 40GR VMax at loads of 26.5,27 and 27.5 gr of BLC2.I had the big head after my results with the Sierra bullet.Boy oh boy did I get my ass handed back to me.I was sure that the Hornady was gonna shoot great.Hell every group I shot looked like one of John Kerry`s benchrest match records..It was terrible ...so much for BLC2 with the VMax.

I can`t figure it why there is so much difference in the Sierra and VMax as far as the accuracy.The Sierra is a flat base bullet and the VMax is a boattail.I seated the VMax a little longer but that should not hurt its accuracy. Any thoughts on this one fellas?I`ve been down this road befor with my 7x57, but I finally figured out what it liked to eat.I suppose I am gonna have to do the same thing with the VMax.

Have a good one,I gotta go subsidize Midway`s stock for a while.

Gene

Gene,

I believe your loads with the 40gr bullets are a little on the lite side.  My load for 55gr WW SP's, WSR primer, WW,FED or Rem brass is 27.0grs of BallC-2.  Not a hot load in my rifle..no primer problems.  Rifle is a post '84 Winchester Model 70 carbine (20" barrel) and velocity is chronographed at 3040 to 3085fps. with the different brass and all shoot to pretty much same POI.  Just for grins one afternoon I did  a 5-shot group with 2 Factory Rem with *50*gr HP's, 1 Fed Factory with 55gr SP, and 2 reloads with WW brass and the load above.  Group at 100yds was 1.204".  Surprising--hey What?????

Ol' John

Howdy John, My load with the Blitzking  is .2gr over Sierras published max with 40 gr bullet weights.I stopped at 27.5 gr with the VMax bullet.It didn`t show much sign of promise tightening up any.You think I should work the VMax load up to book max or till I see signs of pressure increase with it?The accuracy was reallyreally  crappy, like 2.00' crappy at 100 yards.I could easily push it another grain up but what I saw tends to make me think it is a waste of powder.I appreciate the info John......Talk at ya later

P.S. it was a little chilly at 4:30 am this morning.The first tingling  of rifle season kinda chilly...

Gene

Good going with the Sierras Timber.  I'm not sure what to tell ya about the vmax results.  I've tried BLC-2 once and didn't have any luck getting good groups with it.  I've had best results with W748, Varget and now Benchmark.  (velocities with Varget are on the slow side)

Seems like I've always had the best accuracy with 55gr bullets.  Either in fast or slower twist barrels.  I haven't done much work with 50 or 52gr bullets.

I think you're gonna have to try some different powder/bullet combos and see what works and what doesn't.  I guess that's the fun of reloading, eh.      Those 40gr vmax might come alive over a different powder, or another seating depth.    Good luck with it.  

Fella's;

I've had excellent results with the 50 gr. V-Max in my .220 Swift.  Never had the inclination to try the 40's, as I'm getting 3960 fps with beautiful accuracy 1 full grain under max load.

900F

Always hafta go for the high-cammed crotchrocket, doncha, Freddie? Now you need a Fireball or plain Jane 223 so you can get rid of all those primers.

Timber, your rifle might have a Hornady "block." Most of mine have a Nosler block, altho one likes Noslers best.

Too bad your throat is in the next state. Surprises the crud out of me considering you have a 1-14 twist. That basically means 55 grains and less. And 2.358? Gee, I don't think I could get a 40 grainer to stay in the case at that length, the boattail Noslers for sure NOT.

An "ideal" throat would be one that when you find a good load, or the perfect bullet weight for your wants, that load just HAPPENS to be with the bullet base at the case/shoulder point at the bottom of the neck. Then you can shoot that load until the barrel is toast. Which is a long time with a 223, at least three summers.

Keep experimenting with your seat depths. You should find out for sure where you have contact with the lands, however, and use that as a do-not-exceed length (in most situations). I would recommend one bullet that you might want to try if HDY's don't work, and that's the Berger MEF 52. They cost a skosh more, but if they work, and they should, who cares? The coyotes might.

Hey fellas, thanks on the info about the 50 gr and heavier bullets.

Hey Dave,I dont know about a Hornady block.I was shooting Hornady factory 40 gr VMax moly coated in it and it was shooting sub 1" groups easily.

 Dave, good info again and I appreciate it.I seated my Sierra bullet at 2.248".That long seated dummy cartidge at 2.358" scared me.There wasnt much bullet in the case neck and I didn`t like the thought of a bunch of powder in my magazine well so I pulled it in some.The Sierra groups so far are decent when pushed at higher velocity  but the VMax which shot so well as factory ammo is crappy??Perhaps I should switch to a powder with a different burn rate and  experiment with seating depth as you said.The seating depth on my 300 Win mag made all the difference in the world.

Thanks on that Berger bullet tip.I might give them a try.I am not necessarily stuck on the 40 gr bullet weight and as long as I can accurately put the bullet on the yote, experience has taught me he`s done for.Appreciate all the info from you fellas,I`ll post some pics of groups pretty soon.I have one load for the Sierra`s I want to try again that showed two cutting bullet holes and a flyer for a group of about .80".Talk to yall later..

Gene

I got the Vmax to shoot.She is running 27 grains of Varget in Winchester virgin brass.I dont know how much tighter I can get this Japanese Weatherby to shoot with a 3x9 Simmons on it.It will consistently even on a bad day run factory Hornady 40 gr moly coated in 3/4 inch groups.Today it ran the 27 grain Varget load on the top left at an outside diameter of.642" for a center to center of .44". at 26.5 grains of Varget it shot .665" outside diameter for a center to center of .46". The starting load at 26 grains was a bit over an inch.By book max I can go 28 grains of Varget, but without I drop tube I dont know how.27 grains is halfway up the case neck.I seated these loads at 2.270" oal.They are out there compared to a factory Hornady cartridge of 2.240" with the same bullet.I am seriously thinking about snagging my 6x18 Redfield off of my 270 and seeing just how small a group I can get with being able to see my black dots I use as an aiming point up around 16 power or so.Here is a pic of three round groups with the upper left yielding the smallest.I wanted to do more testing today but 6MMGhozt ,his sister and mother had to drag me off to go eat 30 bucks worth of King crab for my birthday...I am going yote calling tonight so not much time left to dabble with it today anyway.Here is todays results.

Timber;

Those are some nice groups.  Now you're into fine tuning, not load development.

Dave; 

The plan was to aquire a bolt .223.  Due to circumstances beyond my control, that plan is history.  Daly is now offering a true mini-Mauser left hand action in their .223.  I'm very interested, just broke.

900F

CB900F wrote:   Due to circumstances beyond my control, that plan is history.  Daly is now offering a true mini-Mauser left hand action in their .223.  I'm very interested, just broke. 900F

JUST BROKE!!!!   Hell, feller-------don't let that stop ya!  We are all broke!

Ol' John

Thank CB.I am gonna keep playing with ita and tune it .I seen those Charles Daly`s you are talking about.Very nice barreled actions for sure.

I took the little 6MMGHozt with me this evening.Hit my cottontail squealer for about 10 seconds, looked back around to make sure the kid was set .About two minutes later on my offside here come a yote and took me by complete surprise,with me in between the kid and the yote.I never expected a dog from that direction.He was down in a depression .I seen the top of his head and put the hairs as fast as I could on his head with him coming my direction .I must`ve overshot him, he turned and come up out of the depression as I threw the bolt and seen his shoulder.I seen him jump like a cat when I shot.I am pretty sure I put a hole in him.He went off in thick underbrush to his left.I looked for him for a bit, but I aint getting a rattlesnake bite in the face crawling around after a yote.I feel bad about the shot.It was a bad shot on my part.I shouldv`e waited  on the first shot.Either he seen me and was gone or I`d got a nice frontal neck shot.I wanted the kid to get a shot instead of me just didn`t go that way....

Gene

I hear ya GR.I hope I missed him with that second shot..but I dont think so.The way he jumped makes me think I put one in him.Either way, thats the way it goes sometimes.

On the VMax, thanks.I am gonna stick with Varget for a while with it and see what I can do.I might take my Redfield off my 270Win and put on the Weatherby.Dont know if it really matters.The .223 has nailed plenty of yotes with that old cheap Simmons on it, but.I`ve been saving money for a Leupold for the new 25-06AI so buying another quality scope to put back on my 270 is really not feasible at the moment.I would sure like to see a nice little.30" cloverleaf from the .223 with these ultralight bulletsIt gives me something to work towards with it anyway.The strange thing is I said I would never fool with loading a .223 but as I watch it do good, that handloader part in me just won`t quit trying to do better..

Ghost, you are on your way with some of those groups. Varget actually works better the heavier you go. I know a couple of guys who swear by (not at) Varget in their 22250s and 308s.

You should be just fine in the long run, and a half inch with a 3x9 is darn good tootin. I have a feeling if you go to some kind of 50-52 with a case-load of Varget, your groups might shrink even more.

When you do, I will be sort of curious to know what your final OAL to land contact turns out to be and with what bullet. I tried just about all of them in my old barrel and I still have the dummy rounds, so it will be interesting for me to learn JUST how long that throat is.

Gene - Happy belated birthday!  Hope you got yer fill of seafood.  That's fine eating.  Almost as good as a wild game dinner .

I'm with CB, you're fine tuning now and I agree with you on not being able to see how you can improve on the load you've got.  You're keyholing the groups so you're doing very well. 

As for the 'yote, well you win some and lose some but I wouldn't get hung up on it.  I wouldn't crawl through the brush after the thing under the best of circumstances.  Makes a nice pelt but ya can't eat them and most guys treat em as vermin.  I'm sure you would've liked 6MMGHOZT to take the shot but he learned an important lesson nonetheless - when the shot presents itself, you've got to make a quick decision and get the shot off.  You did good and glad to see ya taking the lad out there hunting.

Keep after them, they probably need a good killing  things are getting thick in many places.

Hey Dave, I am a beleiver in Varget.I have a load in my 7x57mm custnm that will put three holes  in a fingernail at 100 yards with a 140 gr Sierra bullet.I run it in my .308 Win model 10 Tactical  with excellent results  and my left hand Mauser in 308 I gave my oldest southpaw son will be using it too with both 150,165 and 168 gr bullets.I would have thought that Varget would not outshoot BL(C)2 in a .223 but I learned a new one, again.I am gonna order that chamber mic Midway has, either that or buy a box of 50.52 or 55 grain bullets and smoke a bullet and  adjust my seating die to where I can just close the bolt with a bit of tension.Then put a caliper on it to the marks of the lands on the bullet.I am curious too, how far the oal chamber length is in my rifle now.

Mountaineer, evening to ya.Thanks on my birthday.Just another day but it was sure good eating.I imagine I resembled a raccoon with a bunch of crawdads the way I tore that plate of crab legs up.The people eating the sissy plates of  a peice of fish, kept eyeballing me a little funny..Thanks on the yote also.I wish I wouldv`e been able to get 6MM the shot instead of me ,but our seated position and how close to us the yote was ,there was no time.I like being able to take a pic of them too and stick em up on my gunroom wall.I try to take 6MM as much as possible with me to hunt, but there are some places I go that are just too rough and are really out of his skill level.I do my best  coyote calling alone when I am seriously hunting but I enjoy watching him get all quiet and serious looking when we get out of the truck and start humping it to our hide locations.He is doing real good at his noise discipline, but I admit I get on his rear ..hard ..when he moves like a bull through the brush or drags his feet and fidgets when we`re seated.He keeps his groups plenty deer killer close at 100 , and at 50 yards he is definately not bad at all.I cant wait to see him roll his first yote or deer.He gets to deer hunt in 2 weeks and if I have done my job good enough ,we`ll be eating on a buck and a doe both early this year ,courtesy of him.I am gonna do more with these light bullets, but I also wanna try some loads with some 50 gr  and 55`s .Like Dave said ,I think I can get better accuracy for sure.I know the BC on these 40 gr bullets isnt worth a crap compared to one of the heavy conventional bullets.

On another note.Fellas there is a good member amongst us I want to publically thanks.JAYRANDO sent me enough Frontier,Lake City and he said Winchester brass is in the boxes too, to keep me happy for quite a while.I  just looked through them a minute ago after the UPS guy came by.JAY, thanks ,I do truly appreciate it.100 peices of virgin Win brass from Midway cost me about 12 bucks I think, plus shipping.With guys like him around it goes to show how good of folks hunters and shooters are.My wife mailed  the money order for shipping Saturday Jay.For how much brass I got, shipping is nothing..Jay if you ever need any help starting out with reloading, or anything else,let me know.I owe you one..

Gene

I dx`d Hornady Factory ammo today and sighted my 223 with the 27 gr load of Varget and the 40 gr VMax.Today it yielded its best group so far at .538" outside diameter  for a center to center of .315" .I am  gonna stay with this load.I cant ask much more from it than this.I think It would be better if I shot it a little better, but I am happy enough...

lol, Dave..I don`t think I can do that.I got rained out of work and loaded me 40 rounds more this morning.I carried it tonight with me calling coyotes, but no takers that wanted lead poisoning...This little rifle is sure fun to shoot.No recoil and very accurate for an off the shelf sporter.That`ll tend to wear a barrel out around my place.

Gene