The 8mm Remington Magnum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_%28firearms%29" title="Rim firearms - belted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle" title="Rifle - rifle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29" title="Cartridge firearms - cartridge was introduced by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Arms_Company" title="Remington Arms Company" class="mw-redirect - Remington Arms Company in 1978 as a new chambering for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_700" title="Remington 700" class="mw-redirect - model 700 BDL rifle. The 8 mm Remington Magnum's parent case is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.375_H%26H_Magnum" title=".375 H&H Magnum" class="mw-redirect - .375 H&H Magnum . It is a very long and powerful cartridge that cannot be used in standard length actions, such as those that accommodate the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield" title=".30-06 Springfield - .30-06 Springfield . ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Remington_Magnum#cite_note-accurate-2 - [3]}

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Background - edit ] Background

The 8 mm Remington Magnum was intended to compete with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Weatherby_Magnum" title=".300 Weatherby Magnum - .300 Weatherby Magnum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Winchester_Magnum" title=".338 Winchester Magnum - .338 Winchester Magnum . Remington’s decision to use a metric bullet may have been prompted by their past success with the 7 mm bore diameter. ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Remington_Magnum#cite_note-accurate-2 - [3]}

Even though the 8 mm Remington Magnum has never been very popular, it is a very suitable cartridge for the hunting of elk, moose, caribou, and larger African antelope. However, the .338 Winchester Magnum had a 30 year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_start_%28positioning%29" title="Head start positioning - head start on the market, and is short enough for medium length actions, which increases the models of rifles it could be produced in. It is also available with heavier bullets, although this isn't a problem for people that load their own rounds of this caliber. Bullet selection is quite critical with the 8mm Remington Magnum since the bullets have to be designed and constructed to hold together at magnum velocities. ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Remington_Magnum#cite_note-3 - [4]}

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Cartridge dimensions - edit ] Cartridge dimensions

The 8mm Remington Magnum has 6.43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litre" title="Litre - ml (99 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28measure%29" title="Grain measure" class="mw-redirect - grain ) H₂O cartridge case capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:8_mm_Remington_Magnum.svg" class="image">

8mm Remington Magnum maximum C.I.P. cartridge dimensions. All sizes in millimetres (mm).

Americans would define the shoulder angle at alpha/2 = 25 degrees. The common http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling" title="Rifling - rifling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist_rate" title="Twist rate" class="mw-redirect - twist rate for this cartridge is 254 mm (1 in 10 in), 6 grooves, Ø lands = 8.00 mm, Ø grooves = 8.20 mm, land width = 3.10 mm and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap" title="Percussion cap - primer type is large rifle magnum.

According to the official http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.I.P." title="C.I.P." class="mw-redirect - C.I.P. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l%27Epreuve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives" title="Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives - Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives ) guidelines the 8mm Remington Magnum case can handle up to 460 MPa (66717 psi) piezo pressure. This is a very high maximum chamber pressure limit for a rifle cartridge and ≈ 2.6 % above the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI" title="SAAMI" class="mw-redirect - SAAMI maximum piezo pressure rating of 448 MPa (65000 psi). In C.I.P. regulated countries every rifle cartridge combo has to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_%28firearms%29" title="Proof firearms" class="mw-redirect - proofed at 125% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to certify for sale to consumers.

The German http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_x_68_S" title="8 x 68 S" class="mw-redirect - 8 x 68 S cartridge introduced in 1939 is probably the closest ballistic twin of the 8 mm Remington Magnum. The 8 x 68 S is however a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_%28firearms%29" title="Rim firearms - rebated rim cartridge.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: The 8mm Remington Magnum in field use - edit ] The 8mm Remington Magnum in field use

The 8 mm Remington Magnum as a pure civil cartridge can be used in countries which ban civil use of former or current military ammunition.

A powerful cartridge like the 8 mm Remington Magnum has its drawbacks. Like every other big game cartridge it presents a stout recoil. Since there are not many factory loads available, the 8 mm Remington Magnum is often used by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reload" title="Reload - reloaders . They can use this cartridge to create powerful loads by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading" title="Handloading - handloading , while staying within the 448 MPa (65000 psi) SAAMI piezo pressure limit. Combined with bullets with jackets designed for magnum cartridge muzzle velocities, and barrels of 650 mm (25.6 in) or longer to promote high muzzle velocities, the 8 mm Remington Magnum offers the flattest trajectory and best long range performance of the commercially available 8 mm rifle cartridges.

From 8 mm caliber upwards the rise of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectional_density" title="Sectional density - sectional density and penetrating capability of practical spin stabilized rifle bullets (bullets up to 5 to 5.5 calibers in length) tends to flatten out. ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Remington_Magnum#cite_note-4 - [5]}

This means that loaded with light, short and soft nosed 8 mm bullets the 8 mm Remington Magnum can be used on remarkably small game. Loaded with heavy, long and hard (solid copper) bullets the 8 mm Remington Magnum offers enough velocity derived power to penetrate heavy and dangerous game. The 8 mm Remington Magnum is suitable for hunting almost any http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_animal" title="Game animal" class="mw-redirect - game animal on the planet, though certain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa" title="Sub-Saharan Africa - sub-Saharan Africa countries have a 9.53 mm (.375 in) or 10.2 mm (.40 in) minimum caliber rule for hunting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_game" title="Big Five game - Big Five game - i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard" title="Leopard - leopard , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion" title="Lion - lion , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_buffalo" title="Cape buffalo" class="mw-redirect - cape buffalo , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros" title="Rhinoceros - rhinoceros and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_elephant" title="African elephant - African elephant . In the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic" title="Central African Republic - Central African Republic , where there are no http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition" title="Ammunition - ammunition limits for hunting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_game" title="Big Five game - Big Five game , the 8 mm Remington Magnum’s somewhat smaller sister cartridge the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_x_68_S" title="8 x 68 S" class="mw-redirect - 8 x 68 S is used successfully for hunting African elephant. At equal chamber pressure and 650 mm (25.6 in) barrel length the larger 8 mm Remington Magnum produces 3 to 5 % extra muzzle velocity.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: 8mm cartridges compared - edit ] 8mm cartridges compared

Maximum muzzle velocity comparison in % of the probably most proliferated European and American 8 mm rifle cartridges out of 650 mm (25.59 in) long barrels loaded with relatively light to heavy 8 mm bullets to their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.I.P." title="C.I.P." class="mw-redirect - C.I.P. or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI" title="SAAMI" class="mw-redirect - SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute) sanctioned maximum pressures.

This comparison is not totally objective since the 8 mm Remington Magnum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.325_WSM" title=".325 WSM" class="mw-redirect - .325 WSM operate at 448.16 MPa (65000 psi), the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_x_68_S" title="8 x 68 S" class="mw-redirect - 8 x 68 S at 440 MPa (63817 psi), the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_x_64_S" title="8 x 64 S" class="mw-redirect - 8 x 64 S at 405 MPa (58740 psi) and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92_x_57_mm_Mauser" title="7.92 x 57 mm Mauser" class="mw-redirect - 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser at 390 MPa (56564 psi) maximum chamber pressure. Higher chamber pressure results in higher muzzle velocities.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: The 8mm Remington Magnum as parent case - edit ] The 8mm Remington Magnum as parent case

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: 7mm STW Shooting Times Westerner - edit ] 7mm STW (Shooting Times Westerner)

The 8 mm Remington Magnum case has functioned as the parent case for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_Shooting_Times_Westerner" title="7mm Shooting Times Westerner - 7mm STW , which is essentially a 7mm (.284 caliber) necked-down version of the 8 mm Remington Magnum. Designed by Layne Simpson, Editor of shooting Times magazine, the wildcat status of the 7mm STW ended in 1996 when it got http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI" title="SAAMI" class="mw-redirect - SAAMI certified and became an officially registered and sanctioned member of the 8 mm Remington Magnum "family" of magnum rifle cartridges. With top handloads pushing a 150 grain bullet at nearly 3,400 feet per second, it is one of the fastest mid-bore rifle cartridges extant and is noted for its extremely flat trajectory. It is outclassed only by the Lazzeroni 7.21 Firebird and Remington's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_Remington_Ultra_Magnum" title="7mm Remington Ultra Magnum - 7mm RUM

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: .416 Remington Magnum - edit ] .416 Remington Magnum

The 8 mm Remington Magnum case also has functioned as the parent case for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.416_Remington_Magnum" title=".416 Remington Magnum - .416 Remington Magnum , which is a .416" caliber necked up version of the 8 mm Remington Magnum. Unlike the 7 mm STW, the .416 Remington Magnum never had a wildcat status. It was designed by Remington and released directly to the public in 1988.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Wildcats - edit ] Wildcats

Cartridges that are not officially registered with nor sanctioned by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.I.P." title="C.I.P." class="mw-redirect - C.I.P. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l%27Epreuve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives" title="Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives - Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives ) or its American equivalent, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI" title="SAAMI" class="mw-redirect - SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute) are generally known as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_cartridge" title="Wildcat cartridge - wildcats . By blowing out standard factory cases the wildcatter generally hopes to gain extra muzzle velocity by increasing the case capacity of the factory parent cartridge case by a few percent. Practically there can be some muzzle velocity gained by this method, but the measured results between parent cartridges and their 'improved' wildcat offspring is often marginal. Besides changing the shape and internal volume of the parent cartridge case, wildcatters also can change the original caliber. A reason to change the original caliber can be to comply with a minimal permitted caliber or bullet weight for the legal hunting of certain species of game.

Wildcats are not governed by C.I.P. or SAAMI rules so wildcatters can capitalize the achievable high operating pressures. Because the 8 mm Remington Magnum offers an exceptional sturdy, pressure resistant cartridge case that can relatively easily be reloaded with primers, powder and bullets and hence be reused several times it has become quite popular amongst wildcatters. With the 8 mm Remington Magnum as the parent case wildcatters have created 6.35 mm (0.257 in) (.257 STW), 6.5 mm (0.264 in) (6.5 mm STW), .30 caliber (.30–8 mm Remington Magnum, .300 Jarrett), 8 mm caliber (8 mm Jarrett), .338 caliber (.338 Jarrett), 0.358 in caliber (.358 STA) and 9.53 mm (0.375 in) (.375 JRS [John R. Sundra]) variants.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8mm_Remington_Magnum&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: .358 STA Shooting Times Alaskan - edit ] .358 STA (Shooting Times Alaskan)

Another brainchild of Layne Simpson, the .358 STA is an 8 mm Remington Magnum case necked up to accept .358 Caliber bullets with no other changes. Able to propel a 300 grain bullet at over 2700 feet per second for 4,900 ft./lbs. of energy, the .358 STA is a formidable big game cartridge. It has never emerged as a production cartridge and has had very limited success as a wildcat, overshadowed by the more popular .375 caliber commercial and custom cartridges.

.325 Winchester Short Magnum

.325 Winchester Short Magnum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WSMandWSSM.jpg" class="image"> WSM and WSSM family of cartridges. From left to right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_WSSM" title=".223 WSSM" class="mw-redirect - .223 WSSM , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.243_WSSM" title=".243 WSSM" class="mw-redirect - .243 WSSM , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.25_WSSM" title=".25 WSSM" class="mw-redirect - .25 WSSM , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.270_WSM" title=".270 WSM" class="mw-redirect - .270 WSM , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_mm_WSM" title="7 mm WSM" class="mw-redirect - 7 mm WSM , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_WSM" title=".300 WSM" class="mw-redirect - .300 WSM , .325 WSM.
Type	Rifle
Place of origin	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States" title="United States - United States
Service history
In service	Never issued
Production history
Designer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Repeating_Arms_Company" title="Winchester Repeating Arms Company - Winchester
Designed	2005
Manufacturer	Winchester
Produced	2005–present
Specifications
Parent  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casing_%28ammunition%29" title="Casing ammunition" class="mw-redirect - case	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Winchester_Short_Magnum" title=".300 Winchester Short Magnum - .300 Winchester Short Magnum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet" title="Bullet - Bullet  diameter	.323 in (8.2 mm)
Neck diameter	.350 in (8.9 mm)
Shoulder diameter	.538 in (13.7 mm)
Base diameter	.555 in (14.1 mm)
Rim diameter	.535 in (13.6 mm)
Case length	2.100 in (53.3 mm)
Overall length	2.860 in (72.6 mm)
Case capacity	83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28measure%29" title="Grain measure" class="mw-redirect - gr H2O (5.395 cm³)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling" title="Rifling - rifling  twist	1 in 10 in (254 mm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap" title="Percussion cap - Primer  type	Large rifle magnum
Maximum pressure	65,000 psi (450 MPa)
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type	Velocity	Energy
180 gr (12 g) Ballistic Silvertip	3,060 ft/s (930 m/s)	3,743 ft·lbf (5,075 J)
200 gr (13 g) AccuBond CT	2,950 ft/s (900 m/s)	3,866 ft·lbf (5,242 J)
220 gr (14 g) Power-Point	2,840 ft/s (870 m/s)	3,941 ft·lbf (5,343 J)
Test barrel length: 24 in (610 mm) Source(s): http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/rifle.aspx" class="external text" rel="nofollow - Winchester Ammunition

.325 Winchester Short Magnum (also known as .325 WSM) is an 8 mm (.323 in) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber" title="Caliber - caliber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_%28firearms%29" title="Rim firearms - rebated rim bottlenecked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centerfire" title="Centerfire" class="mw-redirect - centerfire short http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum" title="Magnum - magnum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29" title="Cartridge firearms - cartridge that was introduced in 2005 by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Repeating_Arms_Company" title="Winchester Repeating Arms Company - Winchester . It is a member of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Short_Magnum" title="Winchester Short Magnum - Winchester Short Magnum family of rifle cartridges.

The .325 Winchester Short Magnum was designed to take on the thick-skinned and heavy-shouldered big game animals found from Alaska to Africa. Combining the velocity of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Winchester_Magnum" title=".300 Winchester Magnum - .300 Winchester Magnum with the knockdown power of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Winchester_Magnum" title=".338 Winchester Magnum - .338 Winchester Magnum , the .325 Winchester Short Magnum offers the power needed to take on big game animals in a lighter short action rifle. ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.325_Winchester_Short_Magnum#cite_note-0 - [1]} Like all .300, 8 mm and .338-caliber magnum cartridges the .325 Winchester Short Magnum cannot be universally used on African game since certain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_Africa" title="Sub-Saharan Africa - sub-Saharan Africa countries have a 9.53 mm (.375 in) minimum caliber rule for hunting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_game" title="Big Five game - Big Five game .

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.325_Winchester_Short_Magnum&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Cartridge dimensions - edit ] Cartridge dimensions

The .325 Winchester Short Magnum has 5.39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litre" title="Litre - ml (83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28measure%29" title="Grain measure" class="mw-redirect - grain ) H₂O cartridge case capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:.325_WSM_cartridge.svg" class="image">

.325 Winchester Short Magnum maximum cartridge dimensions. All sizes in millimetres (mm).

Americans would define the shoulder angle at alpha/2 = 35 degrees. The common http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling" title="Rifling - rifling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist_rate" title="Twist rate" class="mw-redirect - twist rate for this cartridge is 254 mm (1 in 10 in), 6 grooves, Ø lands = 8.00 mm, Ø grooves = 8.20 mm, land width = 3.10 mm and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap" title="Percussion cap - primer type is large rifle magnum.

According to the official http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.I.P." title="C.I.P." class="mw-redirect - C.I.P. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l%27Epreuve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives" title="Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives - Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives ) guidelines the Winchester Short Magnum family of rifle cartridges can handle up to 445 MPa (64,542 psi) piezo pressure. In CIP regulated countries every rifle cartridge combo has to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_%28firearms%29" title="Proof firearms" class="mw-redirect - proofed at 125% of this maximum CIP pressure to certify for sale to consumers.

The .325 Winchester Short Magnum is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_L_problem" title="Delta L problem - Delta L problem cartridge, meaning it can present unexpected chambering and/or feeding problems. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_L_problem" title="Delta L problem - Delta L problem article explains this problem in more detail.

The German http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8x68mm_S" title="8x68mm S" class="mw-redirect - 8x68mm S cartridge introduced in 1939 is probably the closest ballistic twin of the .325 Winchester Short Magnum. The .325 Winchester Short Magnum is considerably shorter and fatter and has a more radical rebated rim, much steeper shoulder angle and a shorter neck (7.82 mm) than the 8x68mm S. This makes the 8x68mm S case with its 9.11 mm long neck better suited for loading long heavier bullets and due to its sleeker exterior shape bound to cycle more reliably in bolt action rifles in extreme situations. On the other hand the proportions of .325 Winchester Short Magnum promote good internal ballistic efficiency that allows the .325 Winchester Short Magnum to fire shorter lighter bullets at slightly higher muzzle velocities whilst using less propellant than the classically proportioned 8x68mm S.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.325_Winchester_Short_Magnum&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: 8 mm cartridges compared - edit ] 8 mm cartridges compared

Maximum muzzle velocity comparison in % of the probably most proliferated European and American 8 mm rifle cartridges out of 650 mm (25.59 in) long barrels loaded with relatively light to heavy 8 mm bullets to their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIP" title="CIP - CIP or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI" title="SAAMI" class="mw-redirect - SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute) sanctioned maximum pressures.

This comparison is not totally objective since the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_mm_Remington_Magnum" title="8 mm Remington Magnum" class="mw-redirect - 8 mm Remington Magnum and .325 Winchester Short Magnum operate at 445 MPa (65,000 psi), the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8x68mm_S" title="8x68mm S" class="mw-redirect - 8x68mm S at 440 MPa (63,817 psi), the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8x64mm_S" title="8x64mm S" class="mw-redirect - 8x64mm S at 405 MPa (58,740 psi) and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8x57mm_IS" title="8x57mm IS" class="mw-redirect - 8x57mm IS at 390 MPa (56,564 psi) maximum chamber pressure. Higher chamber pressure results in higher muzzle velocities.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.325_Winchester_Short_Magnum&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: See also - edit ] See also

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Short_Magnum" title="Winchester Short Magnum - Winchester Short Magnum
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handgun_cartridges" title="List of handgun cartridges - List of handgun cartridges
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges" title="List of rifle cartridges - List of rifle cartridges
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_mm_caliber" title="8 mm caliber - 8 mm caliber

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.325_Winchester_Short_Magnum&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: References - edit ] References

• http://www.reloadbench.com/cartspec.html" class="external text" rel="nofollow - .325 WSM dimensional drawing at www.reloadbench.com
• C.I.P. CD-ROM edition 2003
• C.I.P. decisions, texts and tables ( http://www.cip-bp.org/index.php?id=tdcc-telechargement" class="external text" rel="nofollow - free current C.I.P. CD-ROM version download (ZIP and RAR format) )

nice synopsis, ibd.  yeah, the .325wsm certainly is not an equal to the 8mmremmag.

in a way, i think that's what helped the .300, 7mm and .270 wsm's.  they had a valid comparison to recognizable cartridges     ...    the .300winmag, 7mmremmag and .270wbymag.  folks knew these things and the wsm's could stack up very favorably to them.

then came the .325 and what do ya have.  the much larger 8mmremmag.  no meaningful comparison of equality there.  be like saying the .358norma's the equal to my .358sta.

the 8x68s (a great one in its own right) is indeed a more appropriate cartridge to use for comparison sake, but wager the results would be disappointing to poll the general shooting public and see how many of them even know what the 8x69s is.

more and more, it seems like if you see a .325 comparison, it's being made to the .338winmag and maybe that's more correct.?.?.?.?  who knows.

good stuff, though.

k

sort of got to take a look at the 8x57 loadings used in the comparison.  Most are loaded to old Mauser action standards.  I load the 8x57 and it can be loaded close to the 325.  But the 325 does kick like heck?   But the 325 I shoot is in a light weigh Kimber, and that has a definite effect on recoil.

Personally, I like the 8x57 better than the 325; but the downside is the 8x57 will be on a long action but it feeds better.

I think it depends on what you want the cartridge for, I choose the 270wsm, because I wanted the reach of the 300wm, without the recoil and because it was something different.  The 270wsm is compared to 270wby, it's not, it's a step between 270 and 270wby.

I never bought into the idea of saving a couple of ounces, by going wsm vs longaction.

As far as 325wsm, I think it would fall neatly between 8mm/06 and 8mag. 

Fella's;

When the .325 was introduced, Winchester tried to trumpet that it was the equal to the .338 Winchester magnum on a short action.  It didn't take a rocket scientist (obviously 'cause I'm not one) to do some comparisons between what Winnie published for the .325 & various reloading manuals published for the .338 to determine that somebody in New Haven wuz smokin' dope.

Since I've got a .338, I quickly lost interest, and haven't regained it.

900F

Any of that tripe about short fat cartridges equaling the time tested cartridges that have been used for years is just that, tripe. Gun writers, as I have said in the past, are whores to rifle companies and will give glowing testimonies  about a pile of dung, as long as it's shown to them first. Along these lines, let's compare a couple more cartridges. Let's take the .458 win mag and compare it to say, a 105 howitzer. It makes just as much sense as comparing the .375 H&H to the .375 winchester or the .375 ruger. It can't be done because they aren't even in the same class. On recoil, all recoil is relative. Perhaps the making and naming of alphabet cartridges is aimed at cream puff shoulders. I am kind of short, but I have large shoulders. Both of them have been repaired with rotator cuff surgery. I shoot my .300 WinMag, my .30/378/ my .416 Rigby, my .338 Lapua, my .470 double, and my McMillan .50 BMG regularly. I know they have recoil, I expect them to have recoil, and I am not disappointed. Recoil would never steer my thinking. Incidentally, I own several .22 rf's and they too are a joy to shoot. Going to a local range to shoot any of my .30 cals is a trip of endurance. I usually shoot about 200 rounds minimum. Recoil is a sensitive subject with me. Personally I don't mind it. Some do and that's ok too. As far as short fat cartridges go, I believe that they are much a do about nothing. I don't think they are close to legendary or will ever make it. I have always believed that accuracy and terminal energy are what puts supper on the table. Carrying over distance isn't bad either..................................Kingpin

I edited terminal velocity to terminal energy, sorry for the mix up.

i've never really understood why folks get all worked up about certain cartridges.  new cartridges.  wsm's in this particular case.  the promotion and press surrounding them, for sure.  it can go way over the top.  but that's a people thing, not a cartridge thing.  the cartridges themselves     ...     they're simply options.

i've been working with a howa 1500 .375 ruger for the last couple weeks.  so far, i like the cartridge.  not because it's a .375 H&H (although it's 260 gr. accubond at just over 2900 fps aint to shabby), but because it's a .375 ruger.  it grabbed my interest and got me working with the .375 class when no other cartridge in the class did.

regarding the .325wsm, who knows.  i've zero idea what to expect from this thing.  all i know is of all the short magnum offerings available to this point, this is the one that's interested me the most.  the .300 and 7mm's would have been overshadowed by things already in the safe.  and i'd already screwed around with a .270 that i really didn't want so a .270wsm wasn't desireable.  and so the right rifle at the right price happened to come along and presto.  i'm playing with the 8mm class.  if i can rustle up 2900 fps (+/-) behind a 200 gr. accubond that will print well on target, i'll be satisfied.

as to recoil, my attitude about it has kind of morphed over the years.  any more, i tend to keep it all very simple.  if i want to work with a cartridge who's recoil i find less then appealing     ...      i fix it.  period.

this string's taken on lots of topics.    i like.

k

CB900F wrote: When the .325 was introduced, Winchester tried to trumpet that it was the equal to the .338 Winchester magnum on a short action.  It didn't take a rocket scientist (obviously 'cause I'm not one) to do some comparisons between what Winnie published for the .325 & various reloading manuals published for the .338 to determine that somebody in New Haven wuz smokin' dope.

• .325 - 180 bt (.394bc) - 73.0 grs. - 3153 fps - 3972# me
• .338 - 180 bt (.372bc) - 76.0 grs. - 3281 fps - 4301# me  

• .325 - 200 ab (.450bc) - 69.0 grs. - 2964 fps - 3900# me
• .338 - 200 ab (.414bc) - 76.0 grs. - 3020 fps - 4049# me

snagged these out of my latest nosler.  they're the bullets i'll be using in the .325 so figured that'd be the data i'll gleen from.  these are just straight, top end, printed loads.  kinda interesting that they did their load development on a 26" wiseman for the .325 wsm and a 24" wiseman for the .338 win mag.  you'd think the longer barrel would help the .338 much more then it would the .325.?.?.?.?  strange how they choose some of the development components that they do.

anyway, i'm in complete agreement with cb.  the .325 is not a .338.  if real life mimics printed data, you can see this.  however, it must be said, if i went hunting with cb and we were after game he felt required a .338 win mag, i'd feel just as comfortable hunting that same game (and expect similar, if not the same, results) using a .325 wsm.

course, there's always that arguement with the .338 that you can push it into an area the .325 can not go by using 250 gr. bullets.  probably a valid arguement.  trying to use real heavy bullets in a .325 wsm would only less the powder capacity by the depth you'd have to seat them to still function in a short action magazine.  but i'd counter, if you needed a 250 gr. in a .338 win mag, i'd need my .358 sta and it's 280 gr. bullet.  lol.  there's benefits to having several things in the safe.

later, all

k

Klallen;

When I finally got a load developed for my .338WM, it was this:  Win brass, CCI lg rifle magnum primer, 75.5 grs of RL19 and a Hornady 225 grain spire point, BC at .397, part #3320.  It ran 2870 fps & gave me excellent accuracy for years.  The 6th edition of Hornady, book 2, gives me a muzzle energy figure right at 4000 ft lbs.

All of a sudden it went overpressure & I'm still trying to get that situation figured out & under control.  Unfortunately, it occurred more than once when trying to get a handle on the solution.  So, it wasn't an isolated event, which wouldn't matter if it was, once is one too many times.

But, back to the point, I didn't figure any of the newer .338 calliber offerings could come close to what was available with the Winchester magnum.

900F

hi, cb.

if i can get that velocity, and some accuracy, behind these 200 accubonds, i'll be thrilled.  should be able to reach out a little bit and touch something with that .450 bc, too.

hope you get your pressure issues figured out.  hunting season's just around the corner.

k

Klallen;

Not to worry, the .338 won't be in the field this year, but I've got other arrows in the quiver.

900F