Just wondered how many guys understand and pay attention to Dram Equivalent information on shotgun shells. This system is about a hundred years old. I can't believe that no one has come up with something better than this.

I'll take a stab at a definition as I understand it. The Dram Equivalent number relates directly to the number of drams of Black Powder it takes to move the same size shot payload at the same speed as the shells contained in the so labeled box. A dram = approximately 27.34 grains. The higher the D.E. the faster the load and the harder the kick. RD

RD,

At least in 12 ga I think it's usefull and easily understood. With shot so high it starts to make sense to buy ammo, even if you're a high volume shooter. I have Kemen, Estate, and Nobel on hand now. Only the Nobel lists velocity instead of drams equivqlent.

mike

I think I agree with your Rocky.  It is and estimate at best.  Since the old black powder loads never got the velocity of todays shells, there really isn't any equivalent.

It would be as dead as hogan's goat; except US ammo makers didn't want to put the velocity on the shell as there is little difference.  So a the only value is that for the same shot load, from the same mfg.  the higher the dram eq. the faster it "should be".

I notice that recent years some mfgs. are listing the velocity in fps...great.  Hope that makes all mfg take notice and list.

For years I  have  shot a lot of trap and  reloaded shotgun shells; including some super magnums for ducks and geese. And have to say that it is tough to tell if the extra 50-100 fps will make a difference in lead???

BEAR

RD,

Try the 7/8th Nobel or Fiochi. I can get them in 7.5 , 8 and 9s. They chrono 1180 or so. They may be available in larger shot sizes too.

7/8th in a grey winchester wad and a #25 bushing with 700x thru a mec 9000 makes a super soft load and patterns so evenly. Have no idea what the pressure is but that load won't cycle any 390 or 391 I've seen and often won't cycle an 1100. A #30 bushing with International Clays is similar.

For that matter the 7/8th Nobel sometimes won't cycle a pal's Technys either.

Bear,

I don't think velocity means much, except to sell ammo.  The Kemen 2 3/4 dram 1  1/8 oz load goes less than 1160 for me but is what I use if I don't think 7/8ths is enough.

If you want light low pressure load buy "trap" loads.  they have a velocity limit by the ATA, and will not hurt that old timer.

Just bought a few hundred rounds of 1300 fps copper plated #5 12 gauger.  Going to a pheasant tower shoot on the 15th.  Be using and 11-87 this year.  Leaving the double at home. spent hours over the last 5 month looking at price and performance on 12 guage....gave up bought the Winchester.  Nothing is cheap (reasonable).  These birds are fast flying toward you and 20-30 yards up.  Unusual pheasant shot.  For over dogs I use the 7/8 oz Estate loads.

BEAR

Rockydog wrote: I'll take a stab at a definition as I understand it. The Dram Equivalent number relates directly to the number of drams of Black Powder it takes to move the same size shot payload at the same speed as the shells contained in the so labeled box. A dram = approximately 27.34 grains. The higher the D.E. the faster the load and the harder the kick. RD

That's how it started out. Now DE is actually a defined as a set velocity for each weight and gauge.

For example, a 12 Gauge shell with 1 1/8 ounces of shot and 2 3/4 DE has a velocity of 1,145 FPS. (Supposedly). A 3 1/2 - 1 3/8 - X is 1,240 FPS.

Some boxes are labeled as "Dram Equivalent - Skeet". No matter the Gauge or shot weight, that's 1,200 FPS. Some boxes are labeled "Dram Equivalent - Max". That's just advertising hype.

DC