When?
Printed From: The BaitShop
Category: FireArms, et cetera
Forum Name: Handguns, Pistols and SixGuns
Forum Description: Also, check out www.sixguns.com!
URL: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11883
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 22:37
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: When?
Posted By: Muleskinner
Subject: When?
Date Posted: 26 December 2006 at 22:27
When did 1911s become safe to carry "cocked and locked," and what was the precise development that made them safer? Everyone remembers the legends about peace officers shooting themselves with 1911s and all the bad press that caused the 45 ACP to have a tarnished reputation as a law enforcement piece back in the 70s. Since the grip safety was added way before then, there had to be a later internal change that I can't remember.
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Mule
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Replies:
Posted By: crazy2medic
Date Posted: 27 December 2006 at 06:44
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I think most accidental discharges involving the 1911, was A. LACK OF TRAINING or B. BLATANT STUPIDITY. I've carried my 1911 cocked and locked for better than ten years now and never ever had an issue with that! my father carried a 1911 cocked and locked since I can remember! never had a unintended discharge! I do know of a case in a large police dept. west of me had one officer shoot another in the leg when they used the decocking lever on their beretta 92. I know the police dept for the city that I work for has gone to the 1911 and pretty much abandoned all other pistols except for a few glocks! yes, they carry the 1911 cocked and locked! I know that on my 1911 that unless you release the slide safety, fully depress the grip safety and pull the trigger fully to the rear it will Not fire!
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Posted By: Triggerguard
Date Posted: 27 December 2006 at 09:31
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Colt believes it was when they added the series '80 firing pin block, and so do a lot of others.
I do know of one accidental/negligant discharge in the 70's when a Bryan, Texas LEO slid a cocked and locked Commander off a table and it fell muzzle down. Inertial firing pin or not, it discharged, making a divot in the concrete floor and scared the crap out of the officer. Don't know if it was a tired factory spring, an aftermarket spring, or what, but it sure didn't keep the pin from the primer!
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"...A moral compass needs a butt end.Whatever direction France is pointing-towards collaboration with Nazis, accomodation with communists,...we can go the other way with a quiet conscience"-O'Rourke
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Posted By: Kingpin
Date Posted: 27 December 2006 at 14:59
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That is the exact reason for the firing pin block. Any 1911 WILL discharge if dropped on the muzzle without the block. That being said, mine don't have them as I always know where my gun is relative to my holster and hand. In some instances, IDIOTS will have the grip safety pinned to make it inoperable. They are all, without exception, casualties waiting to happen. If the thumb safety, and the grip safety are in good operating condition, the gun is safe to be carried cocked and locked, in a good holster, and in competitant hands. This means, in three words, TRAINING!!! TRAINING!!! TRAINING!!! No one has any business carrying a pistol if he doesn't shoot it as much and as often as possible. 200 rounds a year is NOT what I'm talking about either. Practice makes perfect. Good practice that is, not just aimless blasting awaY.
Now for the decocking lever stories. ANY auto pistol with a decocking lever has the potential to fire when decocked. What causes it is, when the shooter is decocking a loaded pistol, his trigger finger has the slack in the trigger pulled out and decocks with his non firing hand. When the slack is out of the trigger, the firing pin block has been moved out of the way, allowing the inertia of the falling hammer to discharge the pistol. I have been an "expert witness" concerning this on several shooting inquiries. Thankfully, just walls and furniture were the victims, but the shooters ALL had to be retrained on the operation of their pistols by a very unforgiving and most insulting ME.................................Kingpin
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There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Posted By: Muleskinner
Date Posted: 28 December 2006 at 11:48
KP, you been to the pistol institute?
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Mule
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Posted By: Kingpin
Date Posted: 28 December 2006 at 12:32
Which one do you have in mind Mule? I shoot at several schools per year. I usually attend Mid-South Institute in Walls Mississippi 2 or 3 times a year, additionally, I recieve some training here where I work, and have been to Bill Rogers school in Ellijay Ga. several times. I have to , as the job requires that I have to maintain a degree of competency.................................Kingpin
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There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Posted By: dfletcher
Date Posted: 28 December 2006 at 12:40
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I just visited the S & W website - there's a "non-gun magazine" article printed about an LE that went to an MRI room with his cocked & locked 1911, one with the firing pin block - and when he put his 1911 on the table the MRI pulled it forward with such force that went it hit barrel forward the gun fired. Here's the article, with photos
http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092 - http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092
Anyone that unlucky shouldn't carry a 1911!
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Posted By: Kingpin
Date Posted: 28 December 2006 at 13:12
That was a real spine tingler of an article. The tech was one stupid person who needs their creds revoked. Two weeks ago, I had an MRI. The day before I had to have my eyes X-Rayed to make sure that there wasn't any metal in my eyes. On the day of the procedure, I was taken into a locker room and had to remove everything in my pockets before she opened the door to the MRI. Wrist watch, wallet, pocket knife, keys, change, rings, revolver, and ANYTHING looking remotely magnetic. Yep, THAT tech needs to scoop up dogshit in a park and stay away from patients. A few years ago, a boy was killed in an MRI when an unsecured oxygen bottle got sucked into the MRI with him. Anyone who thinks that doctors, nurses, and hospital workers, shit in little zip-lock bags, really ought to check into how many people each year are killed through incompetance and malpractice. That gun firing with a firing pin block with no idiot attached, was the first time I ever heard of such a thing. I printed the article to show as many people that are interested. In fact, I plan to take a copy to the place where I had my MRI....................Kingpin
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There are times when a normal man must, spit in his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Posted By: Muleskinner
Date Posted: 30 December 2006 at 01:13
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I'm speakin' of the one in Arizona, the REAL pistol institute. All others are merely pistol intitute wannabes - they ain't started by JC. My reloads were poppin' off at that place thirty year ago.
I remember those ol' stories. I think they were started by the Italians, so they could one day get their crappy products into the hands of our military. Damn garlic eaters an' mobsters.
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Mule
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