premium bullets - necessary for deer?

I never said the BT's were premium bullets.  I don't consider them as such.  I do consider them to be the most ballistically sound big game hunting bullet on the market for the $$$.  I'll gladly pay the extra 8 cents or so for that.  Understanding that taking deer and antelope cleanly doesn't require much, as I'm sure you do, this ballistic prowess stands out as what separates the BT's from everything else.

I don't know your stories about BT failures.  Really don't care.  That's not to be rude or anything .  They're your stories and I accept them as such.  The strangness that I see in going from BT's to Hornady is going from what "you" perceive as a weak bullet to one that "I" perceive as being just as, if not more, weakly constructed.  The ring is a joke.  The velocity that folks claim breaks up a BT is the same exact velocity that will compromise that interlock ring.  And once the ring is busted, what else have you got going holding the Hornady together?  Nothing.  Going the other way, there are distinct differences that I could appeciate in the BT's.  Past the ring on the Hornady's there was no back-up to hold the bullet together.  In the BT, I get a jacket that tapers to a much heavier thickness, as it heads down toward the base.  Once at the base, I get a thick, solid foundation that will not break apart and continues penetrating even if the core has separated.  Again, no such thing with the Hornady bullets.  The base is as thin as the jacket itself, and that does nothing to hold the bullet together.  My findings were at 3200 fps.  I could never, with a clear conscience, use an Hornady at 3400 - 3500 fps.  That covers the RUM, Warbird, .264 WinMag     ...     pretty much all the big game stuff.  Now in the .270, with it's 3100 fps, maybe, but anything will work well at this speed.  Hornady just offers nothing I'm interested in using when extreme velocity is present.  Now in the .416 RemMag, I do load the 400 gr. RN's to 2400 fps.  Would I trust them on a dangerous game hunt     ...     hell no.  They might very well work, but if I can't trust Hornady on deer, I sure as heck ain't gonna have any confidence in them with something nasty in the cross-hairs.

The only Hornady I can see myself sticking with in the forseeable future are the 75 gr. A-Max's in the .223.  They seem to shoot well and I've complete confidence in them on chucks on up to coyotes.  Beyond that, Hornady isn't worth much else to me.  >>  klallen 

   I been reading this and could not figure out a way to put what I wanted here,to many great points allready,but now that bow season is here the answer is right in front of my face,see if this southern way of putting things makes any sense. 

   I wouldn't go bow hunting deer with a field tip instead of a broadhead.

   Make sense?????

KL,

   Roll that deer over so we can see the size of the hole.

 If you fellers want to talk performance lets see some pictures of it, other than that pull up a chair, have a beer, and watch the game.

Spot

"Roll that deer over so we can see the size of the hole."

Never considered taking pic's of the entrance and exit wounds and the damage to the vitals.  Interesting.  Maybe this next year. 

"If you fellers want to talk performance lets see some pictures of it"

I thought I just showed you a pic of performance, SS.  In my mind, if there hadn't been any performance provided by the cartridge and bullet     ...     the pic would have consisted of me, alone, with my gun & beautiful orange vest, crying cause I just watched this deer run to the next county, wounded    .

Issue here is can a BT break through smallish bone and can they penetrate after they've done so.  Folks have told many a story where they can't.  I accept that.  I don't agree with them, but I accept their stories for what they've seen.  I've only experienced them accomplishing both with regular easy.

One thing I've never done is advertised BT's as being the sturdiest bullet on the market.  With that, they are certainly a bullet that has a correct and an incorrect way of use.  Moreso then other bullets (Hornady and Sierra's don't apply).  I've said many times, figure them out and they'll never fail ya.  If you can't (or don't want) to take the time to figure them out, a person is completely correct in choosing another bullet that tends to be more forgiving.  >>  klallen 

>>>In my mind, if there hadn't been any performance provided by the cartridge and bullet     ...     the pic would have consisted of me, alone, with my gun & beautiful orange vest, crying cause I just watched this deer run to the next county, wounded   .<<<

and THAT is probably the bottom line.....confidence in what you are using!

I'm sure not saying that no one should hunt with anything but a 30-30. Last year I happen to be in SW PA during deer season. I wasn't hunting, but attending to health issues with the parents.I had the opportunity to talk to a few of my old high school chums. I was amazed at how many of these country farmers,and city dudes are usng big magnums on those little bitty whitetails. My best friend of years ago uses a 375H&H, two other guys use 300 Mags, a few use 7 mag and others use .308 Norma mags. This is in country where some times you have to crawl on your hands and knees to get through the berry brambles and wild grape thickets. In a  few cases, you might get 200 yds on an old power line right away or hay fields, but by deer season, back there, the bucks go nocturnal and you can best find them on the edges of those thickets . These guys all brag about the big holes thier cartridges put in those deer. Half of the deer usaully gets thrown away because it's hamburger and totally blood shot. If you look at the bullets they are using, it varies from the cheapest you can buy at the local discount store to the $2 a pop ones from the famous makes.It never occurs to them that there was a bullet failure because they blow such a big hole, they never know what it did. The next day, they are hunting in another area where shotgun slugs or muzzle loaders are only allowed,and they show up with a 20 guage shotgun smooth bore with slugs. They put on a drive,and every deer that runs out gets smacked 4-5 times by differnt hunters until it can't stand anymore.Then they stand there and argue about who's deer it is.

What I'm getting at is that it's about the same no matter where you go. Guys buy the biggest thing they can shoot,and some times more than not, not shoot, and then procede to shoot at any deer that comes buy that is legal. Then when the deer limps off and they lose it, they claim bullet failure, or in the case of the slugs, there is so much lead flying, the deer can't possibly survive

My claim is that you can go out and buy just about any bullet on the market, non premium, shoot it at the velocities it was designed for, and the bullet weight suited to the game you are hunting, and effectively kill your deer every time if you do your part.  Too many hunters use the excuse of " must use premiums" to  make up for thier lack of skill, or lack of being able to pass on a shot when it isn't right.

My father, who is 93 now, stopped hunting about tens years ago. All he ever used was a 38-40, open sights. He probably killed several dozen deer with that old pistol cartridge, and probably doesn't even know what a premium bullet is.The one time we got him to carry a scoped.308 ,he almost threw it in the river because he claimed he couldn't find the deer in the scope. However, when he lifted that 38-40 to his shoulder, a deer dropped every time shortly there after. His admonishment to us boys, when young, was that every cartridge we fired was worth about an hour of his wages, and we had best make sure when we fired it, something got put on the tabel. Now almost 50 years later. I don't have to worry about putting something on the table, but when I shoot, I want to know that the shot I take will kill, not maybe it will get through the bone to the vitals.