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Antelope Rifle? |
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MtElkHunter
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Joined: 10 August 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 08:05 |
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From what you describe it sounds like the gun has the potential to be a very good shooter. Having the potential means alot to me because I have had high end guns that would not shoot well no matter what you did to them. I have also had very low end guns that shot very well. To me if a gun shows good potential then it is worth investing some time and money to make it a good shooter. If you get a "bad" gun then no matter what you do it is always going to be a "bad" gun.
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 08:17 |
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MtElkHunter, sounds like getting a puppy. Investing time in one with potential.
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MtElkHunter
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Joined: 10 August 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 11:12 |
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Yep it kind of works with alot of things. puppys, horses, trucks etc. I hate giving up on things that have a potential to be really good. On the other hand I hate putting time and money in to something that is never going to be worth it. My big problem is determining if something really does have potential or is it just me wishing it had potential
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 12:44 |
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I respond to devices that way. A car, piece of equipment, etc that has served me well, deserves my best efforts to repair it. Sort of like to keep old reliable back into reliable shape. BEAR |
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Rockydog
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Joined: 13 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3191 |
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 14:44 |
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I agree, it's a diamond in the rough. JUst running out of time to put the polish on it before I need it. I hope I get it done before KP gets on here and tells me that "no matter how much you polish a horse turd it's still a horse turd".
RD
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Posted: 29 September 2008 at 22:44 |
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tomato stake
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Rockydog
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Joined: 13 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3191 |
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Posted: 01 October 2008 at 13:07 |
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Finally! I glass bedded the action and recoil lug on the .270 'mater stake. Took her out to the range and was disappointed by the dismal performance. 2.5" at 100, 4"+ at 200. At that point I stripped off the "package" scope (3-9X40 simmons 8 point) and replaced it with the 6-24 X 50 Scope, also a Simmons BTW, from my .223. Three shots to set the zero at 100. The next 4 went into .90 at 100. The next three at 200 went into .56. Now I need advice on setting up the Mil-dot scope. Does this theoty make sense? The 4 at 100 were about 1.8" high in the group center. The 3 at 200 were about 1.2" low. A single shot (I was running low on Ammo) with the first Mil dot was about 6" high at 200. I intend to return for one more session before the hunt. I'm thinking that 3" high at 100 should be dead on at 200. My ballistics table says minus 6.5 for a 130 gr. 270 at 300 sighted dead on at 200. 6" + 1.2 = 7.2 for the first mil dot at 200. So I should be off only .7" at 300. ?????? RD
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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hedgepost
.30/06 SpringField
Joined: 02 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Posted: 01 October 2008 at 15:15 |
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Maybe. I think the drops from 200 to 300 sounds about right. Where the dots are depends on the substentions- the distance from dot center to dot center, or dot center to crosshair-and what power the scope is set at. You might try this. Put up a sight- in target with one inch grids at 100 yards and set the scope on it's highest power. A quick check will confirm what the substentions are in inches at 100 yds and at that power. Now change the power ring and watch how the substentions change. Lower power usually means greater substentions. For instance, the substentions from crosshair to ranging dots in a Leupold 6.5x20 that we had modified, equals 2 moa to the first dot below the crosshairs, then another 2 to the next, and finally another 3 to the bottom dot. All that is at 20x. Turn the scope down to 12x and those values double! The simple grid target at 100 will clear it all up. |
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Rockydog
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Posted: 01 October 2008 at 15:34 |
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Thanks Hedgepost. That's the info I was looking for but didn't know quite how to ask the question so it made sense. BTW this info at 200 was at 24 power. RD
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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hedgepost
.30/06 SpringField
Joined: 02 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 01:06 |
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Yeah, that's a problem with those dot type scopes. You get it figured out at 24x but most likely won't carry it hunting at that power, and then all the values are different. But, the good old reliable xhair stays in the middle at any power! How about this; Turn your power ring until the dot substention is 2 or 3 inches at 100 yards, then leave it there and don't mess with it. Re-zero so the dot above the xhair is good at 100. That'll put the xhair on at 200 and the first dot down at 300. You can make the dots match the trajectory of whatever load you use, at some power setting. Then, if you aim at an antelope and see the xhair and both top an bottom dots all on the chest you know it is at or under 300 yds. That total subtention will equal 9 inches at 300. Sort of a built in range finder, which is what the real deal mil dot is anyway. I expect a good 130/270 to be down 10 to 12 inches at 400 from a 300 yard zero. I've also chronoed Winchester factory loads at 2850! You just have to go shoot 'em. |
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 01:47 |
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More game is lost to multiple dots and crosshairs than enough. Just tape a range/drop chart 2"x3" on the side of you stock. Laser range the game use the hold over from the chart, and gut the game. These Mil Dot scopes are making it too difficult to hunt. LOL BEAR |
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Rockydog
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 01:55 |
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Bear, I think HP has a clever idea here with the range finding ability. I've thougt about a rangefinder for this trip but have little use for one here in Wis. As long as I can figure this out on the range I can't see why it would be so complicated in the field. Just wish the range was longer than 200 so I could really try her out. RD
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 02:07 |
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When it comes time to shoot wild game, a man's mind gets pretty complicated. Dah… what power was I on, etc. In 1962 I had Unertle scope company build a special multi-cross wire recticle for my HD wood chuck rifle. 10x. I missed more chucks because of those additional horizontal wires than they ever helped. Talked to a guy at the rifle range last week, he had his 30+ son there getting ready for gun season. Kid had a new 338 rifle, got rid of the '06 ‘cause he missed a deer. Had a mil dot Zeiss on the 338 (taken from the ’06). Talked to the kid (big guy ). He said he knew what he did wrong, shot the wrong dot! Personally I think he needed to change scopes not rifles???? Sh&t happens all to often. I like the K.I.S.S. principle for my hunting. My bow only has one bead also. BEAR |
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hedgepost
.30/06 SpringField
Joined: 02 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 02:43 |
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I agree Bear. Too much clutter and too much scope power makes missing easier. Fun for targets and prairie dogs tho. Altho I never had an issue with light while antelope hunting, it always seems to be way early or way late when I see a good whitetail. At those times the highest scope setting gathers the least light. If I've worked out my drops at extended range with the scope at the top end, and have to turn it down to see the deer clearer, well darn!, the drops don't work anymore, at least in reference to dots or bottom duplex tip. But, that good old xhair stays right in the middle all the time. |
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 03:13 |
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Hunting brings up lots of issues. I think the brightsest light to you eye is at a power setting that is about 1/5 of the objective lens diameter in mm. So on a 4-16x 50 mm objective, the brightest setting is at 10x. At a 3x9 40mm; it occurs at about 8x. Try it. The 4-16x is what I've used for night hunting coyotes and leopards, with a handheld spot/flash light, it work pretty good. I have a 1-4x 28mm and its brightest is 4x. You are right on the dusk and dawn, best times esp for whitetail. Shot one last night a 6:20pm. BEAR |
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MtElkHunter
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Joined: 10 August 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 08:30 |
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I agree with Bear on this one. I have a couple of those multiple recticle scopes. One on a 22-250 varmit gun and another on a 270 I use for hunting. The multiple recticle scope works well on the 22-250. I have time to lazer the distance and use the correct wire. If I miss thats fine I just look for another varmit. On the other hand the scope on the 270 has caused me problems. The scope has not had any problems it was me that had the problem. Twice now in the heat of the moment when I only had a few seconds to make the shot I have used the wrong wire and missed what should have been pretty easy shot. I don't know why I used the wrong wire I just did. Once I went back to the method I have used for 30+ years most of my goof ups went away. Not that I still don't mess up once in a while but just not has offen I will try and describe the method I have use: This method works for most guns that have a "normal" trajectory (243,270,7mm 3006 and the magmums (300 338 etc) It does not work for the rainbow guns (30-30, 4570 etc). I sight in 3 inches high at 100 yards. I you do this most guns will be right on somewhere around 250 yards, flat shooting guns will be a little more, less flat shooting a little less than 250. It really does not matter. The max rise above line of sight is about 4 inches at about 200 yards. The point where it is about 4 inches low is around 280 to 300. Most big game animals have a kill zone of at least 8 inches top to bottom (some like elk are alot bigger)so any bullet hiting plus or minus 4 inches is dead. With the gun sighted in like described you can just hold dead on an animal out to about 300 yards and deliever a fatal shot. I have found that 90% of my shots are less than 300 yards so by sighting in the way I describe I don't have to think on most shots, I just hold right on and shoot. |
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Posted: 02 October 2008 at 10:36 |
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right on the hunting/ranging method. Same as I use.
"The scope has not had any problems it was me that had the problem. Twice now in the heat of the moment when I only had a few seconds to make the shot I have used the wrong wire and missed what should have been pretty easy shot." I've heard this many times and said it to myself. Once with rifle scope and again with my bow sights. Think even a mule like me would have learned it after one easy miss. |
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