The BaitShop Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Library > Art, Music and History - Cowboy Poetry and Stories
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - what’s wrong with this picture?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

This site is completely supported by donations; there are no corporate sponsors. We would be honoured if you would consider a small donation, to be used exclusively for forum expenses.



Thank you, from the BaitShop Boyz!

what’s wrong with this picture?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
aka The Gipper

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: what’s wrong with this picture?
    Posted: 28 September 2004 at 05:53
Buffalo Hunt, 1891 
George Catlin
Buffalo Hunt, 1891


Origin:United States
Profession:Painter
Born:July 26, 1796, Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
Died:December 23, 1872, Jersey City, New Jersey
 
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

Helfen, Wehren, Heilen
Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 08:18

tough to see with my olde eyes.

 

Looks like two native Americans sneaking up on a herd of buffalo aka bison.

Why would two intelligent hunters use "wolf robes" to sneak up in???  my guess is that the buff would attack and trample the dudes.  Darwin would eliminate these guys from the gene pool once again.

I think, again, the artist painted an image 'he' had not a true representation of the native life.

BEAR

Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
aka The Gipper

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 08:34

bear -

here's a bigger picture. i'll answer your questions below......

>>>Why would two intelligent hunters use "wolf robes" to sneak up in???<<<

simply put: this is what people used before the days of RealTree and MossyOak. no horses, no guns, so they use this "camo" to sneak in closer. a couple of wolves aren't going to disturb a herd of buffalo. a pack of them might bother a solitary buffalo, but not a whole herd against two.

>>>my guess is that the buff would attack and trample the dudes.  Darwin would eliminate these guys from the gene pool once again.<<<

it's very possible that they would be trampled. that's why only the best and bravest volunteered for the job. families needed food, so they did it. as for darwin, if they WOULDN'T have found a way to get within arrow range (tough bone, hide and muscle, vital organs well-protected), darwin would have eliminated them long ago.

>>>I think, again, the artist painted an image 'he' had not a true representation of the native life.<<<

catlin lived with the indians (most notably the mandan) for quite an extended period of time. i can look it up. he learned about, observed and deptcited the indians in great detail. his artistic talent might be lacking in some eyes, but he was very much an anthropologist as well as an artist, and he was very meticulous in his observations.....

TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

Helfen, Wehren, Heilen
Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
aka The Gipper

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 08:36
i forgot to mention; the error i was referring to is somewhere else....
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

Helfen, Wehren, Heilen
Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 09:59

Ron,

Why not use a part of an old buffalo robe?  It would seem to this guy that a buffalo robe would be easier to get than a wolf hide.  What hide did they use to sneak up on the wolf.

It is funny, because I was out hunting last week and noticed again how close you could get to wild game animals it you lay close over top of a horse and just graze into mule deer and antelope.  I was thinking of using a short recurve bow and 'grazing' into a small herd of elk.  Assuming your horse would hold still, I think I could get a shot off into an elk???  but I haven't tried it...probably to messed up to get a chance at it.  Interesting as my thoughts were on this subject last week while stalking mule deer in open country.

BEAR

Back to Top
Triggerguard View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby

aka The San Antonio Terminator

Joined: 13 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2212
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triggerguard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 10:15
Every time I see this painting, I wonder just how common white/light colored wolves were.
"...A moral compass needs a butt end.Whatever direction France is pointing-towards collaboration with Nazis, accomodation with communists,...we can go the other way with a quiet conscience"-O'Rourke
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 13:06

It has been a few years since i read the Lewis-Clark Journal but seems i remember lots of references to white wolves and white grizzly bears????

 

BEAR

Back to Top
Ranch 13 View Drop Down
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum
Avatar

Joined: 02 June 2004
Location: Guernsey
Status: Offline
Points: 657
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranch 13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2004 at 16:20
 It don't look to me like they have their bows strung, and neither appears to be carrying arrows.
The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
Back to Top
bkcorris View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
aka The Cheesehead Savage

Joined: 11 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkcorris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 03:49
My only thought was to weather or not there were wolves on the open plains.......

Stupid people are like a slinky, they don't serve much purpose in the world but they sure are fun to watch tumble down the stairs!
Back to Top
bkcorris View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
aka The Cheesehead Savage

Joined: 11 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkcorris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 03:57
Oh wait........most of the grass is bent over from right to left, indicating they are are aproaching with the wind, poor hunting practice.........to nit-picky??

Stupid people are like a slinky, they don't serve much purpose in the world but they sure are fun to watch tumble down the stairs!
Back to Top
T.T.U. View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
.30/06 SpringField
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.T.U. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 05:05
the buffalo on the left has a ass for his head lol
The good life!!!!
Back to Top
T.T.U. View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
.30/06 SpringField
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.T.U. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 05:06
well take that bakc it relly looks like it though
The good life!!!!
Back to Top
The_Mountaineer View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
** West BY-GOD Virginian! **

Joined: 02 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2653
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Mountaineer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 05:32

I'm w/ BK I think they're going with the wind right into the buffs

Only other thing is that I didn't see any buffalo chips out there in the prairie.  All them buffs and no chips?  Come on! If so that's got to be the 2nd most full of shit herd I've ever seen. 

First herd of course is Marshall University's Thundering Herd football team

Paritur pax bello - Peace is obtained by war.
Back to Top
Bronco View Drop Down
.243 Winchester
.243 Winchester
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bronco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 07:28

BK--They were on the open plains. The last wolf that my father killed was 1 mile east of Moorcroft, Wyo in 1925. They didn't have Moose or Elk to feed on so they ate beef. Probably the reason they killed em all off. The Robinson ranch ran Herefords, plus on the Belle Fourche River they ran 3000 head of Mexican cattle. Dad's way of controlling the Coyotes was to dig up the dens and drag out the pups and hit em in head with a shovel. He told me those were pretty exciting days. He called them " The Good Old Days"

  He died in 1995 at the age of 96.

               Bronco

       

My Father didn't bring me into this world to become #2 on the food chain.
Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
aka The Gipper

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 11:08

FWIW, i am looking right now at a very good facsimile of the original and the bows are strung and they do have arrows.

bear, sometimes a buff robe was used, especially when they were preparing to run them over cliffs. lot of white wolves out tehre in the old days, the griz bears were called white because of their grizzled look. in fact, great falls has an island on the missouri river running through town named WHITE BEAR ISLAND in reference to lewis's run-in with a large nasty specimen of ursus horriblus. yes, there were many wolves, grizzly bears and even elk on the plains. it was only after they were chased into the mountains that they became known as high-country animals.

good observations with the grass, and for that matter, the buffalo chips, but not what i was looking for. i do notice that in another part of the painting, the grass is going the opposite way, so i cannot speak for the wind. also, keep in mind that the second, larger image is a lithograph of the original painting, and as such has some details and lines not intended by the original artist. if i can find a better pic of the original painting, i will post it. unfortunatley, the one i am looking at right now cannot be scanned.

take a good look at EVERYTHING in the opening post, and i will provide the answer tomorrow......

 



Edited by TasunkaWitko
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

Helfen, Wehren, Heilen
Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 11:25
Sure, make us waitCry
Back to Top
T.T.U. View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
.30/06 SpringField
Avatar

Joined: 01 January 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.T.U. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 12:54
he dies before the painting was made i can see that unless that means when they hunted them or something like that. And if it was when the hunt was going on then they would have had guns

Edited by T.T.U.
The good life!!!!
Back to Top
bkcorris View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
aka The Cheesehead Savage

Joined: 11 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkcorris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 14:18
I agree with TTU, that's the only other thing I see is that the pic was painted after he died, but that has to do with the caption, not the pic........

Stupid people are like a slinky, they don't serve much purpose in the world but they sure are fun to watch tumble down the stairs!
Back to Top
Bronco View Drop Down
.243 Winchester
.243 Winchester
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bronco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 14:30

Date of Death of the artist. 

                            Bronco

My Father didn't bring me into this world to become #2 on the food chain.
Back to Top
waksupi View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
aka Keeper of the Old Traditions

Joined: 11 June 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 2371
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waksupi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 17:21

I suspect 1891 was the collection date, for when it was added to a museum collection. There are some still wandering around. I know of one in South Dakota that a museum has been trying to document for several years. The style and mediums are correct, but unfortunately, no signature. As a reputable museum, they do not have it on display, so as to not mis-represent the work.

There were, and are, many white wolves. They run a great variety of colors. There was a famous pure white one, I believe in the late 1800's, called the Custer wolf, that killed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of livestock.

The wolves were a prairie anmal, and probably never saw the mountains until the game moved there. Ever wonder why Lewis and Clark nearly starved crossing the Bitterroot Range? No game there at that time.

The grass direction is inconsequential, as Catlin, and many other artists used the technique to give a painting depth.

His contemporaries really didn't think that much of him. Audobon in his trip up the Missouri kept a journal, and was anything but flattering to Catlin, considering him a romantasist, rather than a chronicaler, and not to be taken as a final word in correctness. I have seen great variations comparing his work to other contemporary artists that painted the same subjects, mainly Woodlands Indians, wearing the same clothing. Much different in what they were painting. Catlin painted things I know were incorrect, through my work in museums, and handling early specimens. I consider Bodmer a better painter of the time for correctness, and Alfred Jacob Miller was probably the best chronicaler of the mountain man era.

What was the question?

Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.090 seconds.