250 yards

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   sometimes when we start throwing yardages around that we shoot or kill game at, it gets hard to keep it in perspective. here's a couple of pictures of 250 yards (taken during a recent bench session w/ the 338). the pics were taken w/ no zoom:

if you look real hard down the lane, you'll see a black speck. that speck is my 100 pound black lab, zeus. he is about 200 yards out (just to the left of the sticks on the chrony). to the left of him is a light colored speck (in a direct line w/ the tree in the background). that is my target board.
and here is a picture of a my target board at 20x, paralax corrected. i ran out of hands, so everything looks crooked, but you get the idea:

so, there ya go. a lasered 254 yards. the sheet of particle board measure 4'x6', just for reference.

Edited by dakotasin

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dakotasin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator a TRUE brother-in-arms! Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4099	Topic: 250 yards Posted: 25 April 2004 at 11:58
	sometimes when we start throwing yardages around that we shoot or kill game at, it gets hard to keep it in perspective. here's a couple of pictures of 250 yards (taken during a recent bench session w/ the 338). the pics were taken w/ no zoom: if you look real hard down the lane, you'll see a black speck. that speck is my 100 pound black lab, zeus. he is about 200 yards out (just to the left of the sticks on the chrony). to the left of him is a light colored speck (in a direct line w/ the tree in the background). that is my target board. and here is a picture of a my target board at 20x, paralax corrected. i ran out of hands, so everything looks crooked, but you get the idea: so, there ya go. a lasered 254 yards. the sheet of particle board measure 4'x6', just for reference. Edited by dakotasin
	Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.

dakotasin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator a TRUE brother-in-arms! Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4099	Posted: 25 April 2004 at 12:06
	ahh, hell! this doesn't belong here... ohhh, tas?!?!?!
	Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest	Posted: 25 April 2004 at 12:15
	Now you know why we NEED scopes. BEAR

waksupi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .416 Rigby aka Keeper of the Old Traditions Joined: 11 June 2003 Status: Offline Points: 2371	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 04:26
	How many times have you shot those fence posts behind the target? Good perspective. I've taken a couple people out that have claimed to kill elk at 600 yards to a thousand yard range, and show them what 600 really looks like. They tend to shorten up thier range estimate somewhat. Especially when they shoot a few shots from thier pet rifle, and can't seem to hit a target larger than the kill zone on an elk.
	Shooters Cast Bullet Alumnus http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php?

Orion Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Joined: 10 August 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 555	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 04:45
	Nice setup Dakota. Yes, something such as this puts things in the proper perspective. Only at the range have I been able to shoot at extreme range. Unless one knows their rifle well, you're gonna miss!
	"No man's opinion is any better than his background, his experience, and his general common sense." -- Jack O'Conner

dakotasin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator a TRUE brother-in-arms! Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4099	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 04:47
	well, so far i haven't killed the fenceposts... they are another 200 yards beyond the target board, and the bullets are in the dirt before they get there. when i get set up for longer range practice, the fenceposts actually are to the left of the target board, so unless my windage is really off (think in terms of feet or yards), they are in no danger. you'll also note a machine shed in the background... it is also in no danger, though, as it is a hair over 2 miles from the bench. the tree to the right of the target board is almost 1 mile from the bench. on range estimating... i can't tell you how many times somebody has claimed to kill deer out outrageous distances... a friend of mine claimed that the 243 is the greatest mulie chambering ever, asked why, he said it shoots flat. fair enough, i guess, so i asked him 'how flat?' his response was the closest of the last 3 mulies he dumped (all 3 were 1-shot kills, btw) was 800 yards, and he didn't have to use any hold over - but the wind blew the bullet 2 inches off from where he was holding (20 mph full value cross wind). so, yeah, i think people tend to overestimate their ranges.
	Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.

klallen Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .416 Rigby The RockChucker Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2331	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 07:42
	One relative constant whenever you see someone print the distance of a shot they took on game; if they don't own a range finder or never used a range finder on a particular shot, you can be almost certain that they'll over-estimate the distance. And most of the time, grossly so. When you get right down to it, for someone who will be shooting at extended ranges, there is nothing "more" valuable then a quality range finder. >> klallen Edited by klallen
	A Big Mouth Don't Make A Big Man !!! The Duke

Tikkabuck Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator Robert E. Lee IV Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8740	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 08:08
	Gotta agree with ya Klallen,before I had to count my shots in steps,sure is nicer with a range finder. Dakotasin,great setup sure would be nice to have a set up like that back here.
	God,Mother,Country,and Hot Rods. Done with political crap.LOL

TasunkaWitko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator aka The Gipper Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Chinook Montana Status: Offline Points: 14753	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 08:18
	excellent reference tool dakota! thanks!
	TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana Helfen, Wehren, Heilen Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen

macca Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .416 Rigby AKA The Thunder From DownUnder Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1149	Posted: 26 April 2004 at 19:55
	Range estimate is an art and takes a lot of practice.You need to know the size of an object and then place it at various ranges and be able to judge how it shrinks in your view.Failing wanting to go through all this(my father made me do it till I could tell a roo was 800 yards away) you buy a good quality laser rangefinder. Dakota that is a vary nice range.I wish I could have some of that green grass to feed my sheep. Macca
	don't let the bastards grind you down.

dakotasin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator a TRUE brother-in-arms! Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4099	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 02:20
	fellas- this isn't a range per se... it is an improvised range, at best. to the left in the picture is an alfalfa field, and to the right is the driveway to the house (the mailbox isn't pictured, but is just behind me in these pics). the grass is green in the pic because we just got into spring and had rain like 2 days before the pic. i'm going to pour concrete in the shooting area and build a more stable, permanent bench there - then it will be more like a range... all i did was found an open area that was close to the house where i could shoot, unmolested, to my heart's content. sometimes the mailman stops by for a chat, but other than that, i'm left to my own devices there. macca- shipping would kill you on the alfalfa, but if it were feasible, i'm sure you could have all you wanted. we have 40 acres of just alfalfa that we grow for no reason other than keeping the weeds at bay. keeps everything green, and since it is short, i can shoot over the top of it, if i so desired. as it is, i just shoot along the ditch over the grass. works well enough.
	Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.

Big Sky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Joined: 10 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 582	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 03:54
	Sometimes on a good day, with the right equipment, some of us can shoot accurately a little further than 250 yards. This 3 shot group is just under 1 1/2" at a lasered 802 yards. Granted I've never repeated a group this tight at this distance, but the fact does remain I did do it at least once and had a witness ta' boot.

Big Sky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Joined: 10 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 582	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 03:58
	The same day I shot the above group I was shooting pretty well all the way around. Here's a 10 shot group (my hand is covering part of the group) also at 802 yards. Not too shabby when you can cover the whole group with your hand. If it were a deer all the shots would of been in the heart lung area. Sure like those calm days when there's no wind to factor in. Unfortunately those days are almost as rare as shooting a 3 shot 1 1/2" group at 802 yards.

dakotasin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator a TRUE brother-in-arms! Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4099	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 04:36
	that's some good shooting, to be sure, sky! especially if that was shot from the 'pod. windless days are rare around these parts to be sure... my best ever group at 800 yards is around 3" (from a bench, not a bipod)... trying desperately to nail a prairie dog at 1000, but once i go beyond 850 yards or so, my groups just get too wild (and at 1000, there is no way i could purposely hit a prairie dog w/ my current equipment - and that includes a range finder that gets iffy beyond 650 yards). hoping to solve that problem this summer... we'll see how it pans out. i actually think the scope is the limiting factor right now... kicking around the necessity of a nightforce, but at $1500 or more, it is a heap big investment for me. back to the 250 yards... i was shooting there for load development purposes w/ the 338. it was a fairly windy day, and beyond 250 yards i run out of trees (wind block). just gotta make-do on the windy prairies...
	Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.

Big Sky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Joined: 10 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 582	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 04:49
	Yes it was all off a Harris bi-pod and laying out in the middle of a stubble field. Pretty much hunting type conditions. On this particular rifle the scope was a Leupold Mark4, 10X. However I normally use rifles with NXS scopes and I prefer them considerably over the Leupolds or about any other scope I have ever peered through. Nightforce scopes just plain ROCK. The new Nikon Tacticals ain't too shabby either.

Timberghozt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Administrator aka GarryOwen Joined: 21 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1971	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 11:22
	Big Sky ,excellent shooting and a good looking rig you have there.Range estimation is hard for many people and I agree that any shooter playing at long range must know exactly how far it is.What is the bullet drop between 600 and 700 yards for a .308 Win and a 150 grain bullet.I cant remember off the top of my head , but if I recall if you are off fifty yards you will miss a deer sized midsection.I will look it up later in my ballistic tables, but at that range the arc of the bullet is quite drastic in its downward descent.Well I looked it up at 500 and 600 yards with a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps, with a 38 inch bullet drop between 500 and 600 yards with a set zero at 290 yards.Thats damned sure a miss if you are off.I`ve always been pretty decent at range estimation out to about 400 yards but not for shooting so much.Learned it in the military for land navigation and call for fire where it pays to know your distance.Just my 2 cents...Gene

Big Sky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Joined: 10 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 582	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 11:47
	Laser range finders are a must for anything over 400 yards in my opinion. I guess my point in posting the above photographs was to point out that after practicing a lot at 700 to 800 yards, 250 yards just doesn't seem very far most of the time. I'm pretty much dead nuts out to 300 yards. It's those 300 to 400 yard shots that get tough if you don't know the exact distance, wind drift and bullet trajectory. Guessing and by goshing doesn't work very well beyond 300 yards for most folks.

D.F.C. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .30/06 SpringField Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 499	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 14:12
	Those are some pretty good sized dents for a bullet at 800+ yards. I shoot a 300 WSM and a 6.5x284 Norma at 1000. I have shot some steel at the same yardage, the dents weren't much bigger than the bullets. The 190's are hitting the steel at around 1400 FPS. Dan

klallen Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .416 Rigby The RockChucker Joined: 10 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2331	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 15:58
	Hey BIG SKY >> What the heck do ya use for an aiming point? All I see is a lot of white paint. There a small box or dot somewhere on the target that I'm missing? >> klallen
	A Big Mouth Don't Make A Big Man !!! The Duke

Big Sky Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Joined: 10 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 582	Posted: 27 April 2004 at 16:01
	DFC, the ammo was Winchester Match Ammo. I shot the group last August and to be honest I can't remember for 100% sure if it was 180gr or 190gr bullets. It wasn't my rifle or my ammo so it's not like I can run down stairs in my gun room and look for an empty box of ammo. Can't explain the dents (they just are what they are), but when using my 300 Win Mag it would sometimes poke through. The .308 never poked through as you can see. Could be the quality of the steel, could be the thickness of the steel, could be the bullet, could just be the light in the photo who knows? If all you are doing is spoiling for a fight waste some one else's time. So now what are you going to do, bet me $100,000.00 that it wasn't 802 yards or that I was using something other than a .308 Winchester?