The BaitShop Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Hunting > Big Game
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Can a bullet bounce off a bears head?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

This site is completely supported by donations; there are no corporate sponsors. We would be honoured if you would consider a small donation, to be used exclusively for forum expenses.



Thank you, from the BaitShop Boyz!

Can a bullet bounce off a bears head?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
wolfkill View Drop Down
.223 Remington
.223 Remington
Avatar

Joined: 08 August 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 67
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can a bullet bounce off a bears head?
    Posted: 15 August 2007 at 02:57

I'm doing some research on the different forums I visit regarding if a bullet can bounce off of a bears skull.

Anyone have actual experience and or stories to tell?

Back to Top
Rob1 View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
.416 Rigby
Avatar
** The Walnut Whisperer **

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Vatican City State
Status: Offline
Points: 3413
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2007 at 03:22
 I witnessed a bear shot at about ten feet coming towards the shooter. The bear reacted like he had been hit with the true hammer of thor. He went over backwards hard, then got up and ran like a scalded monkey. We were stunned, no blood trial, no hair, nothing. We called the local game warden to give him a heads up on the possibly wounded bear we were looking for. He suggested what happened to be what you're asking about. Can it happen, did it in the case I described, I can't say. But it appeared to be the case.
last in line for the nobel peace prize. first in line for pie

Charter Member of the Round Earth Society
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2007 at 04:08

I don't think bear (especially griz/brown) are good candidates for head shots.  So I think any head shot is probably a bad placement by a poor shooter a or a miss  of a chest shot.  The reason I say this is that a skull CAN bounce a bullet, but the angle to the skull must be very acute, sharp.  Poor shots or missed shoots can indeed result in such bullet behavior.  A 90 degree to the skull will never bounce off.  A 5 degree may bounce off.

Think of this.  When you skip a stone on water, the water is really very soft.  But the stone does skip?  You need a flat stone of course and as we all know, you need a shallow angle or the stone penetrates.  Same with a bullet on water or a bears head.

If you really want to see this I think you could get a cows head from a slaughter house, and try a 30 cal at a shallow angle.

Most skulls are really very flexible and elastic when living.  After death they dry out and get brittle.  Bear are the same.  Also the skull grows in plates and in bears, even large bears the skull is 'softer' than in older bears.  Sort of like old folks bones getting brittle.  An angle of shot that might 'bounce off' a 600 pound 4 year old bear might penetrate a 10 year old 600 pounder?

I've got two grizzly bear skulls in my office, and I'd say that they compare to a wild boar skull except for a shorter nose.  So a test on a 200 pound boar (aka pig) skull would be a reasonable test. 

I also think (opinion) that the bullet size doesn't matter.  A 416 mag with 400 grain FMJ would bounce (skip) off as easy as a 150 gr.  30 cal.  a larger bullet has more side surface to support the heavier weight.

If you mean can a bullet shot at a bears skull  generally at a perpendicular direction bounce off, never.  To much sectional density and energy for a bears skull to support and deflect.  Even a 223 FMJ will penetrate a bears skull if fired at a 90 degree angle.

The photo of the bears head shown, seems to indicate a shot between 30-55 degrees.  It is difficult to tell the angle, with the meat still on the skull.

Just my thoughts.  I never shot a bear in the head, heart lungs work fine for me.

 

 

 

 



Edited by BEAR
Back to Top
wolfkill View Drop Down
.223 Remington
.223 Remington
Avatar

Joined: 08 August 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 67
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2007 at 13:34

Bear you are correct with the angle...it was a standing shot six feet away from a gut shot bear in a lot of pain. He had been laying for awhile and was in no mood to fight.

I have been told the bullet bouncing off a bears skull is a load of crap and an old wifes tale on other forums, this by men who claimed to have shot many bear but...I also had an experience with a good friend who was a crack shot with his 44 mag. And I mean he was a crack shot with it.

He was ground hunting a bait station which simply had no trees anywhere around it for a tree stand. A bear came in but the weeds were too high for a good visual on bullet placement so he whistled it like a ground hog. It stood up to see what had made the noise and he fired right between the eyes. It fell over dead, so he thought, and he holstered his pistol as he sauntered over to his trophy.

As he approached his bear it suddenly took off like a rabbit. He didn't even have a chance to clear the pistol of leather. It was gone. I helped him search for an hour and we found no blood.

When we talked to the local game warden on the reservation he stated flat out, "300 Winchester magnums will bounce off."

The pic below is a different angle of the skull above. Although the skull is tilted a tad upwards I think it does show just how slight the slope is. I do believe it is possible with a bear facing you to glance a bullet off the head esp if you are on the ground with the bear. 

I prefer a lung shot on a bear myself.

 

 



Edited by wolfkill
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2007 at 14:50

I've hear a lot of talk about bouncing off the boss of a cape buffalo.  Again with a shallow angle it certainly could happen.  I also have a very large cape buffalo in my office (yes, it is crowded in there).  the boss is much thicker and harder  than a great bears skull. 

Also a buffalo usually has his head on a level with a shouldered gun so the angle you depict on the bear skull is always present.  "THE" frontal shot on a buff is a base of the neck (to the hear) shot not a head shot.  I'd beat the a lot more shots bounce off buffalo skulls than bear.

As always, I prefer a heart shot on a buffalo, either side or head on.

AS elephants are big, from my perspective, it is interesting that one often preferred shot it the brain shot.  Unfortunately I don't have an elephant's skull in my office.  but I've seen them and examined them.  A dense honeycomb-like bone structure.  The side brainier shot is slightly below the ear canal.  I've seen it made and the elephant spins itself down into a pile.

 

BEAR



Edited by BEAR
Back to Top
CB900F View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Honor, Integrity

Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Eritrea
Status: Offline
Points: 8857
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CB900F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2007 at 15:05

Fella's;

Pick up the archive site for the Great Falls Tribune.  Coupla years ago a hunter up around Teton pass shot a female griz in the head with a .300 Winchester magnum from short range.  The bear was a collared & tracked animal.  She lived.  With the provisio that the print media is involved & all errors are theirs, you can read the details when you access the site. 

900F.

 

Birth certificate!? He don't need no steenkink birth certificate!!
Back to Top
wolfkill View Drop Down
.223 Remington
.223 Remington
Avatar

Joined: 08 August 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 67
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2007 at 00:24

Cost me $2.95 but here is the story I think and I guess I can post it since I paid for it. The author is listed. Apparently there was a pic taken of the sow with the cubs moving on and acting normal but I don't get it with the article.

 

November 23, 2002
Section: A-Section
Page: 1A, 3A

Hunter dropped charging grizzly with shot from hip
Michael Babcock
Staff
Great Falls Tribune

Bear recovering evidence points to self-defense
By MICHAEL BABCOCK Tribune Outdoor Editor

The grizzly sow shot in the head in a dramatic encounter with a hunter earlier this week was on the move with her three cubs Friday, heading deeper into the Rocky Mountain backcountry west of Dupuyer, possibly toward her den.

Bear managers are elated.

Her improvement "is exactly what we were hoping for," Fish, Wildlife & Parks grizzly bear biologist Mike Madel said. "She can travel and care for her cubs, so their survival looks very good."

Friday, the gripping story of the incident emerged.

Apparently, Missoula hunter Rodney Roberts had crawled through heavy brush to within 10 to 15 yards of the four bears before realizing they were not deer or elk.

As he fell backward in the face of the charging mother bear, he fired from the hip, dropping the bear a mere 10 to 15 feet away.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agent Kim Speckman continues to investigate the shooting under the Endangered Species Act, but said Friday that the evidence seems to point to self-defense.

"The scene supported what he told me," Speckman said. "And he was very remorseful and extremely cooperative.

"It is not a done deal yet: If the sow ends up dead, there will be a necropsy. What I could see in the field is consistent with what he told me," she said.

The bear was shot shortly after 1 p.m. on the Greg Duncan ranch about 10 miles west of Dupuyer. Roberts and Dick Swingley of Great Falls were hunting on the TRM Ranch, also known as the Boone and Crockett Club ranch, but apparently had strayed on to the other ranch.

According to reports from investigators, bear biologists and hunters, this is what happened:

About 1 p.m., Roberts and Swingley spotted a group of elk. They didn't have elk tags, but Roberts wanted to get another look at them. The men separated and moved along a timbered hillside about 75 yards apart.

Roberts followed the contour of a ridge through the thick brush and timber. He approached a rise, and through the brush he saw something brown that he thought were deer or elk, and he began to sneak up on them.

He crawled forward until he got very close, then stood partially up. It was then he realized that, in fact, he was nearing four grizzlies.

The wind was blowing hard from the bears to the hunter, so they couldn't smell him. But when he stood up, the sow stood up and faced him - they were 30 to 45 feet apart.

He turned and ran the bear ran after him.

Realizing that running was the wrong thing to do, Roberts turned to face the bear, and as he backed up, he tripped. As he fell, he fired from his hip, hitting her in the face. The bear, now 10 to 15 feet away, went down.

He saw the three cubs running toward him and the sow, but thought they were the sow's cub and another sow and cub.

He ejected the spent round from his .270-caliber rifle, and eventually made his way out of the brush and into a clearing, where he fell down, expecting to see the bears charging his way.

Swingley heard the shot, but didn't know about the bears until Roberts alerted him on a handheld radio.

They went back to the Boone and Crockett Ranch, but no one was there. Eventually they used a cell phone to contact Fish, Wildlife & Parks game wardens, who called Madel and Speckman.

The USFWS is investigating the incident because grizzly bears are protected under the Endangered Species Act. There is an exemption for shooting a bear in self-defense.

A conviction for unlawfully shooting a grizzly carries a maximum $10,000 fine and six months in jail.

Roberts was not carrying bear spray, although it probably would not have helped since he was facing into the strong wind.

"He didn't yell or anything," Speckman said. "All in all, it was not a good situation.

"I, too, have been charged by bears," the investigator said. "There are those who may have not reacted like he did. But nobody can armchair quarterback what somebody would do if they were within 10 to 15 feet of a sow with three cubs running toward them."

PHOTO CAPTION

A female grizzly that was shot in the head Tuesday moves with her three cubs Friday through underbrush west of Dupuyer toward her traditional denning site in the Birch Creek drainage on the Rocky Mountain Front. PHOTO BY MIKE MADEL, GRIZZLY BEAR MANAGEMENT BIOLOGIST, MONTANA FWP


Edited by wolfkill
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2007 at 02:03

Interesting story.  Not much detail of the wound.  270 winchester hunting deer 130 grain????

 

Also note that if you are being investigated by a female officer:   "And he was very remorseful and extremely cooperative."  Acting pleasant, maybe a few tears...will get you a long way. 

To bad that they didn't take pictures after they darted the bear for treatment.  There are a lot of wounds that would do the same thing besides a skull bounce.

BEAR

 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.126 seconds.