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Best Belted Magnum For Elk & Moose
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Muleskinner View Drop Down
.416 Rigby
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AKA The Crotchety ol’ Geezer

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Points: 5285 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muleskinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2007 at 10:38
Well I'll step up, by jehovah.  Based on my observations, all things being equal in the area of shooter ability and bullet construction, I will definitively declare the 350 Wby the best all around magnum cartridge for elk and moose.  Now that that's settled, you won't find ol' mule totin' a shoulder cannon like that.  I'm happy pokin' along with my obsolete .348, tapered case, metal buttplate, and all.  I wouldn't shoot at an animal beyond 300 yds, even if I had a solid rest and a bench rifle.  The fun ain't in pullin' the trigger, after all.  The fun is in gettin' close 'thout bein' smelt, seed, or heared.  Magnums tend to ruin the fun prematurely, even when shot well, and they are typically carried by goal obsessed, impatient, non-hunters who value the kill over the experience, like it was some sort of accomplishment to use a modern high powered rifle, optics, and other technology to kill an animal.  Now afor you get yer back hair up, jus' remember that that's my opinion, an' I'm due that jus' cause I'm suckin' air an' been chasin' elk fer a long time with all manner of nimrods.  If people spent as much time and money fretting over their physical conditioning as they do their hardware, there'd be more elk kilt and more fun had doin' it!
Mule
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Are you trolling Mule?
Saddlesore
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RaySendero View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
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Points: 495 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:22

Have never cared much for "belted magnums".

My 8x57 with 200 Nosler PT will carry 2,037 ft-lbs energy to 250 yards.  Would be my pick and not shoot any farther than that.

 

PS: I ain't going to be the one to bite on Mule's 350 Wby!
Ray
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Muleskinner View Drop Down
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AKA The Crotchety ol’ Geezer

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SS,

Trollin'?  Me?  Pardon me if I try to stimulate a lil' honest to god conversation 'stead of the ass-slappin', spit-swappin', yes-man attaboys that pass back and forth on these innernet sites.  Gotta kill three bulls in a week next Sept.  2 clients' an' one fer my own self.  Worked out a deal to guide my ol' haunts in exchange fer a hunt.  Could take a whole week fer myself, but I feel guilty leavin' the wife on concrete by herself.  Best to spend a couple weeks in the bush with her too.  I gotta admit, the ol' peep sights on my M71 ain't as quick as they was only a few year back.  Might have to take the boy's rifle.

Ray,

Is yorn a military rifle?  What's pushin' your 200 Nosler?  8mm is one of my favorite elk cartriges.  Gave one to my son, and now its sittin' in my safe.  I use IMR4350 and get MOA accuracy from that 26" stepped barrel.  The two elk I plugged with that mauser (sporterized) never knew what hit 'em, and didn't take two steps.  I replaced the two step trigger with a timiney and plopped a 4x scope on 'er.  Maybe I can post a picture of the mauser.  Now where's my wife's camera.
Mule
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RaySendero View Drop Down
.30/06 SpringField
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Points: 495 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 04:36
Originally posted by Muleskinner Muleskinner wrote:

Ray,

Is yorn a military rifle?  What's pushin' your 200 Nosler?  8mm is one of my favorite elk cartriges.  Gave one to my son, and now its sittin' in my safe.  I use IMR4350 and get MOA accuracy from that 26" stepped barrel.  The two elk I plugged with that mauser (sporterized) never knew what hit 'em, and didn't take two steps.  I replaced the two step trigger with a timiney and plopped a 4x scope on 'er.  Maybe I can post a picture of the mauser.  Now where's my wife's camera.

 

Mule,  My rifle is a sporterized Vz-24.  I use IMR-4895 to get velocity to 2,515. At that speed the muzzle energy figures 2,800 ft-lbs.



Edited by RaySendero
Ray
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Muleskinner View Drop Down
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AKA The Crotchety ol’ Geezer

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Points: 5285 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muleskinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 09:33
Is that a replacement barrel?  Looks like you kept the natural safety.   This 'uns a M-48 Yugo.  I was gonna replace the barrel, but the damn thing shot -1" groups, so I let 'er be.

Edited by Muleskinner
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RaySendero View Drop Down
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Points: 495 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 10:25

Originally posted by Muleskinner Muleskinner wrote:

Is that a replacement barrel?  Looks like you the natural safety.   This 'uns a M-48 Yugo.  I was gonna replace the barrel, but the damn thing shot -1" groups, so I let 'er be.

No - Its the original 23.5" "carbine" barrel.  Use to have it set up with a scout scope.  Had the front sight and rear sight band removed this summer when the bolt was bent.  Also had the rear receiver milled and weaver bases added front and rear, both with 2 holes into reciever.

The saftey has been replaced with a two position safety to fit under the scope.  Used the Weaver quad rings for scope.

I'm kinda like you - Thought to rebarrel but it shoots good just like it is, so I'll just wait.  I'm set for reloading the 8x57, so it may be a while.  If/when its gets a new barrel - I'm looking at the #3 sporter contour below chambered in 9.3x62:

http://www.shilen.com/contours.html



Edited by RaySendero
Ray
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Tikkabuck View Drop Down
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  Ain't got alot to say on this thread,most you guys that have known me for very long know all my elk and mulie hunting was done with a .308.Not to say I wouldn't have like a flashy cartrige but I only had 2 rifles to my name back then my .308 and my 250 Savage. It did fine I didn't a reason to need anything bigger shots were never that long.

  But what I wanted to chime in about was that after reading all the posts here I can't get my Uncle out of my head. He guided for elk,deer and Rocky Mt. Sheep longer than I can remember,I started tagging along with him and my older cousins in about 65' or 66' I was 12,13 around there. After he passed on my cousins took over the guiding so it's been a life long deal for them,their gone now and one of their boys is still holding on to it. Sorry for being so long winded. Anywho I can remember lots of times my Uncle would have a fit when  he saw their rifles," Dang city folks" he would say and he would pair them up with somebody else for their trip. I asked him once why he didn't like guiding for city folks,he said it's not the folks,it's that they bring them dad gum magnums and can't shoot them and we wind up tracking wounded animals for miles.

  He told me like to see folks with an old beat up rifle in 06' or 270 because more than likly they knew how to shoot them.
God,Mother,Country,and Hot Rods. Done with political crap.LOL
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Muleskinner View Drop Down
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AKA The Crotchety ol’ Geezer

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Sounds like wisdom to me.
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2007 at 13:48

Thanks Tikkabuck, I have been a life long fan of the 270win. and Jack Oconnors books on the subject agree with you late uncles thoughts. I own a 270 that I bought 30 years ago, I did see a Browning BLR in a gun shop that I would be proud to own, Belgian made 308.

Rick
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**Robert E. Lee IV **

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 A 308 in a lever gun is an awesome tool ,mine was a Sako Finwolf in .308.
God,Mother,Country,and Hot Rods. Done with political crap.LOL
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RayAK View Drop Down
.22 LongRifle
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Best belted Magnum? Well, all depends on where and what one
hunts. For example, the .300WM is very popular in Alaska, as well as the
338WM. The .300WM is a much faster .30-06 (uses the same bullets), and
it overlaps the lower ballistics range of the .338WM. If you prefer
shooting lightweight bullets up to 220 grains, the .300WM does an
outstanding job.

The .338WM benefits from its heavier bullets, from 230 grains to 300.
However, it overlaps the .300WM's ballistics. For example, .338-caliber
factory loads such as the Federal 180-grain PP and the Federal 180-grain
Partition hit the 400-yard mark somewhere at -19.1 inches, which puts it
right next to a factory .300-caliber 180-grain PP or Partition. Although
one can shoot the lighter .338 bullets, it makes more sense to shoot
those out of a .300WM, since where the .338WM does its best is with the
heavier bullets for it. So if you favor heavier bullets for the largest game
around, the .338WM with bullet weights beginning at 230 grains and
ending at 300 grains overlaps the lower ballistics range of the great .
375H&H.

As an all around cartridge in Alaska, the .338WM is unbeatable.

             

Edited by RayAK
Location: Alaska
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big open View Drop Down
.243 Winchester
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M98 Mauser in .425 Wesley-Richards,,,you aint lived 'til you reload a full power elephant rifle with stripper clips while hopin' that Black Death gives you the time to gititdun!!!!ouch!Now thats a Magnum!!!!
LIFE IS HARD.....STUPID MAKES LIFE HARDER.......DON'T DO STUPID!!!
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24mod12 View Drop Down
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I just read an article in Outdoor life about  Jack O'Connor and his 1977 book The Art of Hunting Big Game in North America about a fall hunting  trip to British Columbia,Arizona & Sonora using his 270 with Win 130gr Silvertips collecting:a Whitetail,2 Mule Deer,a Moose,a Grizzly,a Caribou,a Stone Ram,a Desert Ram & a Javelina it's all subject to shot placement according to O'Connor.That was interesting reading after going on the Accurate Reloading Forum and getting chastised by some Alaskan Resident Hunters for disagreeing with them on their mantra of 375 mag or larger for Alaskan Big Game.

Edited by 24mod12
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Donny View Drop Down
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At the range I frequent, I see all kinds of shooters. But one variety repeatedly jumps to the forefront when discussing belted magnums. These are the guys who go out and buy the big spitzersmasher magnums, sit down at the 100 yard bench and proceed to ruin themselves permanently for anything larger than a .243 through poor shooting form. They will sit square facing the target, lean forward across the bench nice and low, put the rifle on one skinny bag, crowd the scope and fire away....about 10-20 shots.  With each subsequent shot they are farther off center. When they have had enough, they usually leave disgusted with their new purchase and the blame lies with either the rifle, scope, or ammo. They have now acquired a flinch that they will probably never be able to lose. Across the years, I used to try and give some of these guys advice on shooting form, but 9 out of 10 times my suggestions would meet with suspicious hostility, so I have given it up. Now I just sit back and watch their elbows skid  across the bench and chuckle. Stupidity has it's own built-in rewards system and these guys take home the prize 90% of the time. If they were decent shots previously, that is now gone. And it ain't coming back anytime soon.



Edited by Donny
"Wish I had time for one more bowl of chili." Last words spoken by Kit Carson
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Originally posted by Donny Donny wrote:

At the range I frequent, I see all kinds of shooters. But one variety repeatedly jumps to the forefront when discussing belted magnums. These are the guys who go out and buy the big spitzersmasher magnums, sit down at the 100 yard bench and proceed to ruin themselves permanently for anything larger than a .243 through poor shooting form. They will sit square facing the target, lean forward across the bench nice and low, put the rifle on one skinny bag, crowd the scope and fire away....about 10-20 shots.  With each subsequent shot they are farther off center. When they have had enough, they usually leave disgusted with their new purchase and the blame lies with either the rifle, scope, or ammo. They have now acquired a flinch that they will probably never be able to lose. Across the years, I used to try and give some of these guys advice on shooting form, but 9 out of 10 times my suggestions would meet with suspicious hostility, so I have given it up. Now I just sit back and watch their elbows skid  across the bench and chuckle. Stupidity has it's own built-in rewards system and these guys take home the prize 90% of the time. If they were decent shots previously, that is now gone. And it ain't coming back anytime soon.

Me to, I stopped giving advice to the know nothing know it alls at the ranges I frequent.
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Originally posted by 24mod12 24mod12 wrote:

I just read an article in Outdoor life about  Jack O'Connor and his 1977 book The Art of Hunting Big Game in North America about a fall hunting  trip to British Columbia,Arizona & Sonora using his 270 with Win 130gr Silvertips collecting:a Whitetail,2 Mule Deer,a Moose,a Grizzly,a Caribou,a Stone Ram,a Desert Ram & a Javelina it's all subject to shot placement according to O'Connor.That was interesting reading after going on the Accurate Reloading Forum and getting chastised by some Alaskan Resident Hunters for disagreeing with them on their mantra of 375 mag or larger for Alaskan Big Game.


i've read this book in its entirety more than once, and continue to use it as a primary guide to the types of hunting that i do. i find it amazing that game animals from back in the 60s and early 70s were NOT armor plated such as the ones today and that "marginal" cartridges such as the 7x57 etc. were able to take them down! nowadays a person would need the latest boomer and zoomer just to have a slight chance!
TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2007 at 14:18

Jacks books are good reading, my dad made me read it before I got my first rifle, other than 22, yep it was a 270 and I still own one, its my go to gun also.

 

Rick
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I owned a Parker Hale .270 from 1967 until 1992 that ended up wearing a Redfield Widefield 3-9X that had the vertical-bar 600 yard rangefinder. Popped a couple of blacktails way out there with that unit using 130 grain Sierra boatails and WW 130 grain Silvertips. My hunting compadre and myself are still moaning about the day I sold it. I'm pretty sure I killed 19 deer and five or six wild hogs with that rifle. It shot .75 MOA with both those loads about 1/4" apart,
"Wish I had time for one more bowl of chili." Last words spoken by Kit Carson
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Originally posted by TasunkaWitko TasunkaWitko wrote:

Originally posted by 24mod12 24mod12 wrote:

I just read an article in Outdoor life about  Jack O'Connor and his 1977 book The Art of Hunting Big Game in North America about a fall hunting  trip to British Columbia,Arizona & Sonora using his 270 with Win 130gr Silvertips collecting:a Whitetail,2 Mule Deer,a Moose,a Grizzly,a Caribou,a Stone Ram,a Desert Ram & a Javelina it's all subject to shot placement according to O'Connor.That was interesting reading after going on the Accurate Reloading Forum and getting chastised by some Alaskan Resident Hunters for disagreeing with them on their mantra of 375 mag or larger for Alaskan Big Game.


i've read this book in its entirety more than once, and continue to use it as a primary guide to the types of hunting that i do. i find it amazing that game animals from back in the 60s and early 70s were NOT armor plated such as the ones today and that "marginal" cartridges such as the 7x57 etc. were able to take them down! nowadays a person would need the latest boomer and zoomer just to have a slight chance!
 Writer will write about anything when the sponsor hands them a new weapon.
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