all-around hunting rifle for montana

Taz, Larry;

I'm not saying it can't be done - but.  I think the 7 X 57 is a little light for elk, moose, & bear.  Unless, well what do you call elk veal?  Or maybe mooslets?  And of course, cubs.  However, there will be complaints lodged by various & sundry members of the Greater Game Wardens Association, PETA, & Mommies Everywhere.

Just so's ya know.

900F

Last elk I saw shot with a 7x57 was hit at around 150 yds, the 154 gr Hornady factoy load caught him dead center in the left shoulder, exited the right shoulder , and was last seen having a cup of coffe three miles away. That cartridge kills way better than the paper ballistics would have you believe and does it with little recoil. My wife shot a nice mule deer at a touch over 400 yds with her 7x57. 1 shot 1 dead deer. The elk I mentioned above? one of the biggest spikes I've ever seen, wasn't any way I could pick up  either the front or the back half by myself.

 Saw 2 other elk shot with the 7x57, one a rag horn bull, the other a 6x6 that would score over 300 both were dead before they hit the ground where the stood.

Yep, I'd have to agree with a few folks on this one Larry.  The old 06 in say a Winchester Model 70 Classic action topped with a Leupold is gonna be tough to beat for versatility anywhere in North America. 

However, I've noticing an itch for a 264 Win. Mag. rising occassionally.  I know you aint big on the magnums but this one, along with dakotasin's suggestion of a 7 Rem Mag would be just as sufficient.  Only drawback of these two, in my opinion, is the lighter bullet weights available for the really big critters like moose and such.  I'm stuck in this line of reasoning that 180 grainers and above are the minimum for moose, bear, elk, etc.  Of course, that's total B.S. in the real world but the 30 cal. 180 grain notion for "big" game seems to have a popular following, myself partially included!

Good luck.  Lots of good choices out there.

ok, here's what we've got.

as i said, i pretty much had LaRRy talked into a 7x57 chambering in the cz m550 american. great rifle, great cartridge, surely a winner!

then along came Rob1 with an offer that was so good that even i had to advise LaRRy to go for it. fasten your seatbelts, its a 7mm remington magnum!

i know, i know...a recommendation like this from a standard freak such as myself! well, the bottom line is that it looks to be a great rifle in a proven chambering for a super price. as has been said many times, the recoil of the 7mag is on par with a .30/06, and the 7mm caliber has killed EVERYTHING at one time or another, thanks to it's great ballistic and terminal abilities.

it's basically a new rifle. rob bought a winchester model 70 for a donor. It shot well so that he bought and finished a stock from Richards.  it's a semi-custom done rifle that looks nice and shoots well, and rob is willing to sell it for what he has into it, which is about the price of many factory rifles and cheaper than some. he'll throw in the rings and bases on it and reloading dies.

how can a deal like that be beat? or refused?

here's a picture>>>

There's nothing wrong with the 7 mag, in fact I had a love affair with one once too, but then I found out, when I got a chronograph, that the thing really wasn't doing what the gun rags would have you believe, in fact the poor ol homely 06 with its favorite 165 gr bullets was outrunning the 7's favorite 160's. A shooting buddy offered me a bunch of cash and a couple of handguns, and I no longer owned the 7mag.

 That Rifle looks good and it should work like a champ.

Fella's;

The only thing I can say is Rob must be making mama happy, very happy.  'Cause Rob's gettin' goofy in his old age.

Larry, if you don't hop on that, I will.  And I know where he lives and his telephone number.  I've seen the gun & do believe that my off-handed son would love to have it.

900F

LaRRy,

A good quality .30/06 is absolutely NEVER a mistake anywhere in the lower 48. The .30/06 with 180 grain bullets has cleanly and reliably taken game for decades. Don't let any of the 7mm Rem Mag fans fool you. If a .30/06 isn't enough rifle for the job neither is the 7mm Rem Mag. It's pretty much an academic rumor that the slightly superior trajectory qualities of the mags means diddly squat in whether you eat steaks or potted meat. Get that .30/06 and enjoy the ability to shoot factory ammo at about a 25% discount in comparison to any of the mags.AW

Ummmmmm seems to a slight difference of opinion as to what caliber is best for Western hunting am I right?

Hold on while I spite this chaw out and start from scratch again please. Need to pick up another bag of Redman!

Well, know lets start with the 30-06 shall we. It is good for elk, antelope and believe it or not, them little critters called Pdogs with the right bullet. Factory shells is always on sale once or twice a year and it ain't gonna cost you an arm and leg fer em OK. It's a solid 350 yard elk gun boys! I once seen (knelt next to him) a hunter take a 5x5 bull at a lasered 447 yards with an 06 and 180 grain Nosler bullet.So lets not be sellin the old soldier short on killin power.

I admit the 7mm mag is a whale of a gun for using out West! However if you don't have it in a 26 inch barrel your just kidding yourself about the real facts in your hand. A .270 winchester will do just as much with it's 24 inch barrel as the 7mm mag with a 24 inch barrel. You can use both the 160 grain bullets fer those big elk too. I have and them Nosler partitions work grand. A 7mm mag with 26 inch barrel and 140 grain bullet sure does straigten things out flat for speed goats. The other aspect of the 7mm mag is that it is user friendly as compared to the 300 Win mag, 338 mag etc. I reckon that 80% of those that have the magnums will shoot that 7mm mag a lot more accurate at Long Range and there is were you need to be accurate in the first place hunting out West. It is a solid 450 yard gun on big game in the hands of a good marksmen! I have rung that gong at Jackson Hole gun club many a time where it is stationed at 400 yards.

The 7 x 57 is a little light on killin power passed the 300 yard range! It is best served on big game (elk & moose) using the 175 grain bullets under the 200 yard distance. It doesn't have the flatness of the .270 for out West type hunting. It's a step below the .270 in my eyes. It is better in the dark timber so ta speak with those big 175 grn bullets. It would make a great speed goat rifle with the lighter bullets though.

300 Win mag! A real Darlin come time to hunt anywhere in my book. It's a caliber that can be handled by most who have done a course or two with the 30-06 or 7mm mag, etc. I really like this caliber a bunch. It shoots very flat and hits em solid like George Foreman. On big bears using 220 or 250 grain bullets, it will get the job done right proper like. On elk with a 180 grain bullet it has the knock down to put a smile on a hunters face, after the trigger has been pulled. The 300 Win mag can reach out and touch em way out younder beneath that "big sky country" that's far sure gents. It's a real favorite of mine and has been for many a year now.

Now what I have stated are true facts! However lets not get mislead as to what you want and what you as a hunter need at the present time. If you have NOT been shooting for a spell, then I suggest NOT to go out and purchase a 300 Win mag......cause it takes a good while to become accurate with this caliber. You would be better served with the more user friendly 270 caliber right off, then after a year or so and lots of target shooting mixed in with your hunting, take the plunge to the 7mm mag or 300 Wim mag.

I left out the .338 Win mag for obvious reasons.....OUCH! It has some heavy recoil and shooting this caliber passed 250 yards for most hunters and being accurate enough with said caliber is very hard to do. It honestly took me 2 years to master the recoil of the 338 mag sometime ago as a younger hunter. It does reign at the top of the list for an elk hunting caliber in my opinion......You know when you hit a big bull elk with a .338 Win mag and 225 or 250 grain bullet.

One thing that helps folks understand the difference in recoil to the shoulder are the figures in actual "FELT RECOIL" to the body.

30-06 = 18 pounds with a 150 = 22.5 pound using a 180 grain bullet.

270 = 15 pounds with a 130 grn bullet, 150 grn. = 16.6lbs, 160 =17.5.

7mm mag = 22 pounds with a 160 grn bullet, 19.5 lbs using a 140 grn.

300 Win mag = 25 lbs with 150grn and 28.5 pounds with a 180 grn.

338 Win mag = 32 pounds with a 225 grn bullet. 210 grn = 29.5lbs

Now a 4 or 5 pound jump upward in a hunting rifle is recoil that you will notice right away, bare that in mind when you choose your tool of choice OK. Most hunters thresh hold of pain and tolerence stops at around 23 pounds of recoil to the body. I will make a suggestion to you and it's only a suggestion OK. Try the 270 first and then another caliber at the range and see which fits your body better in felt recoil. Now that is the one that you will shoot the best at long range! If you are not concerned with shooting animals past the 300 yard marker, then the 30-06 or 270 will be right up your alley for use and they have been getting the job done for many a decade. Good Luck!