all-around hunting rifle for montana

don't understand the fear of magnums that is so prevalent on this board... i assure you, a 7 rem mag is exactly what you are looking for, doesn't recoil any harder than a 30-06, isn't any more expensive than an '06 to buy or shoot, and outperforms the '06.

for rifles, i'd look to one version or another of the rem 700, and stick a leupold on it in talley mounts.

if you can't buy into the 7 rem mag, look seriously at one of the short mags... a 7 shamu in an m7 or 7 wsm in a featherlight are probably the ultimate in do-it-all, do-it-anywhere...

edit: if you really are bent on not getting a magnum, then it is pretty tough to beat a 308 - the '06 has been trying, but even it can't do it.  

laRRy,

CZ550 is IMHO absolutely excellent..all calibers will do the necessary work...I just happen to prefer the 6.5x55.

Dakotasin..........MAGNUMS!!!!...FEAR?????...I THINK NOT!!!!..............Just prefer to use only what is necessary to do the job....I have owned 264WinMag,7mmMag..300WinMag and 375H&H..........waste of money, powder except for the 375 H&H........I once suffered from magnumitis but thankfully was completely cured and have had no relapses...hope someday the "light blub" will be turned on and you will be cured also.......until then enjoy your "fire-breathing expensive unnecessary dragons".....whatever tickles your fancy!  Everybody should have their joys realized...no arguement from this ol' feller!

Ol' John

ok, fellas...

first, apologies to larry for making a mess in his thread.

second, apologies to tas for my commentary on sightron scopes... (also a pre-emptive apology to klallen for same).

hondo- having never shot a swede, i can't make an intelligent argument for or against it. i will venture to say though, that i doubt there's that much shooter-felt difference between the swede and the 264/7rem mag. there may be some wallet-felt difference, depending on the price of brass, but i really don't know.

larry was specifically asking about non-magnums, and i shouldn't have started my diatribe. i'll stick by my words, and my reccomendations (even the 308, one) and not edit my posts or anything... but, i'm ducking out of this one right now, and will refrain from further comment.

NuTTy....I am sure glad you mentioned the .223 and your observations on 'wasteful'!  Couldn't agree with you more on most everything.......but here is where I am coming from.  Lets start with the .223....................

My Win Mdl 70 (post-84) carbine(20"barrel) has been my go-to rifle of choice for hunting in the Central part of Texas(ie Llano county) since 1987.  It is chambered for the .223.  It groups consistantly 0.75" at 100 yards with just about anything I load for it.  Since 1987 when I purchased the rifle it has accounted for better than 35 whitetail and 2 Aoudad rams. Now where I hunt most shots are 100yards or less so to me it is the ideal firearm and cartridge.  Any cartridge larger than the .223 is excessive.  However, there are a few spots I like to hunt at my cousin's ranch where shots are available up to about 250 yards.  When I hunt those areas, I like to take my Ruger 77mkII in 257 Roberts or my CZ550 in 6.5x55.  The 257 with Sierra 90 hpbt's and the 6.5x55 with Sierra 100 hp's are the ticket and do the job needed.  IMO, anything requiring more powder/power is excessive.  Now my cousin that owns the ranch uses a Rem 788 in 308 with, I believe, 130gr Nosler BT's.  He usually does his hunting from the truck as he drives thru the pasture checking the cattle.  When he does hunt from a blind, he usually carries his Savage 340 in .222 or one of the several Winchester 94 carbines that belonged to his father/grandfather in 25-35WCF.  I don't even want to think of how many whitetails were taken with those 2 rifles since the late 1920's.  He doesn't hunt the out-of-the-way spots as his knees are pretty well shot from roof work when he worked as a carpenter.

Now my part of Texas doesn't have elk, moose, black bear, mule deer so the larger caliber with lots of powder room are just excessive.  Now the original post was concerning our thoughts on whether or not the CZ 550 in 30-06 would be a good choice for getting back to hunting in Montana.  I absolutely-positively think the CZ550 is a great choice for the rifle and the 30-06 would be a good choice (not mine) in a cartridge.  It will pretty well cover all the bases using available factory ammo.  I got the impression that the original poster did not handload his ammo so the rifle/cartridge choice made sense to me.

As to the .308 being as good or better than the 30-06, you get no arguement from me with bullet weights up to 165grains.  Past the 165gr weight my hat is off to the 30-06 if you load each cartridge to the same pressure levels.

Now please understand my words are not meant to be critical--this is a discussion on cartridge choices, nothing more.  If the 7mm Mag is your cartridge of choice and you can place the bullet where it belongs, I will be in the gallery applauding you all the way...hell, I might just keep the knife sharp while you are a-guttin' and a-skinnin' and stop to take a smoke!  Confidence in the firearm and your ability to put the bullet where it belongs and comradarie in the wild wide open is just what it is all about.  And it sure doesn't hurt to have the venison or elk in the freezer along with the good memories.

Ol' John..

We all hash over chamberings all the time. And I have no real specific cartridge I consider as the end all of hunting uses. However, I believe the .30-06 probably comes closest to the all around North American cartridge. And I don't even own one!

If you already have a 6.5X55, and you are good shot, it will do everything you need it to do. Not knowing which area of the state you are going to, I do like a bit larger caliber here in griz country. The Swede will do the job with appropriate bullets, but the bigger the hole letting out blood, the better.

I personally have a .358 winchester, that I am shooting a cast 277 gr. bullet out of, that I am quite sure will shoot end to end in a griz, and do plenty of damage. However, in all practical terms, this is a load for about 225 yards. Not due to killing power, but with this weight and the velocities I like, these are the realities I can live with. i personally won't shoot at an animal as far as the rifle is good for. I  would rather think I am a better hunter that can get closer, and don't need to be trying to judge the wind at longer ranges.

When you boil it down, anything 6.5 and over, will handle anything in Montana.

"all-around hunting rifle for montana"

Evening LARRY  >>  When I first read your title, the cartridge that instantly jumped to mind was the .300 WinMag.  7mm RemMag wasn't a very distant second thought.

Then I read the body of your post and saw the aversion to magnums.  If you're adament about that, then we're moving down to that next level in case size, so the recommendation would be the .280 Rem., .270 Win., anything else on that case and then the .30-06, in that order.

I must add on the magnum thing, HONDO makes a nice little sumation comparing two standard cartridges.  He's a smart fella and I completely agree :

"As to the .308 being as good or better than the 30-06, you get no arguement from me with bullet weights up to 165grains.  Past the 165gr weight my hat is off to the 30-06 if you load each cartridge to the same pressure levels."

This is where I'll hedge my bet, though.  That same reasoning is exactly why I would choose the .300 WinMag.  Loaded to the same pressure levels, using the heavy for class bullets, there really is no disadvantage to going that next step up.  It is not going to beat the hell out of ya, and the exact same performance advantages that would support choosing the .30-06 over the .308, are the same exact advantages that would apply in the choosing of the WinMag over the .30-06.

I'm not saying that either of these cartridges wouldn't work on the same game at their prescribed ranges, however, if we recognize advantages as they apply to the '06 over the .308, it forces us to also recognize those same advantages with the WinMag over the '06.  And we can do so WITHOUT moving out of a class of cartridge that any adult can accurately shoulder.

Good luck with your decision, LARRY.  As with lots of fellers here, I've seen MT big game fall to lots of cartridges.  Guess that just proves damn near anything (from the small to the insanely large) can kill well.  With that, you gotta decide what performance perameters you want your cartridge to meet and buy accordingly.  Hell, I killed a nice Mulie buck with a .270 last year, of all things    .

No real comment on the scope thing.  Just a heap of stuff out there.  Do your homework.  You'll find several somthings that will satisfy your needs.  I like Sightron but haven't kept on the price moves that folks are talking about.  Maybe they've got the market they were looking for and feel their quality should command Leupold $$$.  I don't know.  I do know my 3-12x MD is a hell of a scope.  Later.  >>  klallen

Anyway, have fun with your selection.

 There are at least a dozen that'll fit the bill IMO. Find a rifle that calls out to you then look at the caliber. If it's a .308, 7x57, .270, .280,30-06,7-08 to name the commonly found catridges, take it home.

 .

   All the above are good ,BUT all a round?? I think NOT. Montana has so meny diferent typs of game there is No all a round caliber. Frome bear in dence cover to "p" dogs at 700yds. You'll need at least 3 guns, and that does'nt in clode shotgums. You all know that I use my faveret for all most every thing (moag)((mother of all guns)) 4570!!!! It's alittle over powerd for gophers and a little SSLLOOWW for "lopes"

 but its just right for bear and moose!  So I make do! PS I do have meny others to fill in the gaps!