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d4570 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 July 2017 at 10:46
Still working.
I went as far s I can on the boat port for a wail.
I did not go calling and the lawn did not need to be messed with.
Water bug time.
My buddy and I welded up some of the motor platform but did no get it welded to the boat.
I added some Pillars to disperse the weight , not welded in yet. I used a hole saw and cut the Sq tubing and drove it in , should hold better then just welded to the out side.



A VW motor mounts only to the transaxle so no actual motor mounts. I mane one . the motor will set on it and I'll bolt it on with the 2 studs on the front of the motor under the front pulley.





Then I plan on having a heave "L" bracket from the trany bell housing mount holes to the front of the motor mount.




The oil sump is in the very bottom of the case I had to cut a hole to change the oil.



Now I need more welding...
d


Edited by d4570
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 11:37
Looking good. you have really come a long way,
congratulations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 12:33
Long way to go
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 15:26
Looking good D.

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 17:27
your persistence is paying off...looking good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2017 at 14:18
The VW motor is officially attached to the Hull !!!!
I have been fabricating a motor bracket and starter mount .
WOW lots of cutting and fitting But it looks just like I envisioned and
seams to work .
I have to be able to adjust the " attitude" of the motor 'drive.
I still have to make the "Adjuster" on the front.
It will consist of a one inch ,by three inch bolt and nut on a rubber pad
To move up and down and then a locking plate to hold it in place .
That's next.
THEN finally I can start the drive/hub/prop.



Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2017 at 22:41
That's looking great D. 

I'm still not seeing how you are going to run the exhaust?

Wing master
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2017 at 20:37
At long last I have the primary clutch "ON" the motor.
I had to relocate the starter an 1/8 inch as to let the front half turn freely.
 Every thing is turning to the left and all the screw on parts are right hand thread. I have roll pins and nut locks an anything in the "Drive train". I'm going to do a power up soon to see if the VW 1600cc will make the clutch engage.
 
 
 


Edited by d4570 - 10 October 2017 at 20:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2017 at 23:06
Boy, if a tiny 2 cycle snowmobile engine (what CC size was on the sled motor clutch came off of?) will make the clutch function that VW motor surely should too. I forgot is it direct drive to prop or do you have a gear box between?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2017 at 08:23
Think the clutch is centrifugal, so the speed will be the issue.

looking good.

duck season is upon us....go for it D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2017 at 11:35
Originally posted by Irish Bird Dog Irish Bird Dog wrote:

Boy, if a tiny 2 cycle snowmobile engine (what CC size was on the sled motor clutch came off of?) will make the clutch function that VW motor surely should too. I forgot is it direct drive to prop or do you have a gear box between?????
 
 
The clutch runs off RPM.
 A new SB has to run up to over 4000 rpm before it starts to lock up.
No gears but the drive starts out at 3 to 1 and as the rpm goes up the reduction goes down finally to .70 to 1. It'll have a chain at 1 to 1 from the secondary to the prop.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2017 at 11:40
Looking good D. 

Back in my Mechanic days, I worked for a fracing company. They had Nitrogen trucks with a drop box PTO. The output on the drop box turned clockwise looking at it from the back. We had a heck of a time keeping the output shaft nut tight. I would put a little BLUE locktite on the lock nut as well. (I never liked using red locktite)

We ended up having a nut machined that was split and had an allen screw that would "clamp" the nut to the shaft after it was tight. That worked, but was a real pain to tighten the allen screw. 

It looks like you will be on the water pretty soon. Way to go D. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2017 at 12:54
Major test . A+
1971 VW bug 1600cc undetermined  mileage motor.
This set in a shed for maybe 30 years. I Got a new carb at amazon,
New coil, plugs wires points and condenser. I set the valves and point with a feeler gauge ,remember them ? I had it running on the ground for like 5 minutes for the first test of the clutch adaptor that I had made. It failed in moments. I redesigned and had it fabbed up again, This time with a carrier bearing and a shaft that went in to the piolet bearing in the crank. Have not ran since. I built the hull made the motor mounts and finally mounted it on the boat.
Made a mount for the carrier bearing re did the starter to fit.
About a year later. Today I needed to start it up and see if my primary clutch off the 1969 Johnson snowmobile would even work.
Dang! I put the fuel line in to a gas can and hit the starter. A dozen turns and she came to life. I have not put a timing light on it yet but it ran very smooth from, 800 rpm (Idle) after the electric choke came all the way off , to 5000 rpm ( as fast as I wanted to turn it unloaded). As stated in the information I could find on the clutch It engaged at 1700rpm and at 3100 rpm was fully moved in for the reduction change. Everything sounded smooth and solid. I ran it for a half hour or so at 2500 rpm. I still have to do some work on my temp and oil psi apparently, but the oil on the dip stick was still cool to the touch.  NICE!
Next to mount the secondary clutch, and see if that part works as expected !!!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2017 at 13:22
going good D.  Congratulations so far.

Duckies are flying!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2017 at 13:26
Won't get the bug in this year but we ARE going Swan hunting ASSP...

Edited by d4570 - 12 October 2017 at 13:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:18
Houston there Could be a problem...
I just read that the type of clutch (Salisbury Clutch) off the old Johnson's where only rated to 40 hp.
The 1600cc vw is rated at 60 hp.
I'm thinking with the high altitude and loads of miles on the motor I'll probably be closer to 50 hp.
Hope it will work...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:46
It is a centrifugal clutch,  Many of those don't disengage when speed is reduced...IF there is a heavy weight (mass inertia) load on them...they stay locked up.  You prop may make it lock in 'engaged' mode!  
Keep you finger on the 'kill switch' as you try to go to neutral.   A short stop is much better than an unwanted travel up into a dock/parking lot.


Clutches are not usually rated/limited on a horsepower basis.  they are rated/limited on a torque basis.

If the snowmachine ran at a higher RPM for that 40 hp rating; then if the VW engine is running at a lower RPM than snowmachine engine....you will be limited to torques much lower than the torque available from that VW engine, even at  an aged 40 hp.

Also decelerating with the high inertia prop might get torques higher than the rated clutch torque, thereby skidding the clutch friction material.  (wearing it out quick).

Just thoughts from an old engineer!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:55
Yo d4570...no mechanical ability or knowledge here but..wondering if there is a direct relationship to rpm's to clutch vs hp creating those rpm's????.....for example could you control the power output to the clutch via rpm's?...so as to not over max the clutch?

Like...Find out what were the max rpm's on the old Johnson motors of 40hp that were required to allow the clutch to "open" to put full output to the belt (allow it to drop down to  bottom of "v" for full power) and what they said was the max rpm's to the clutch to achieve that result.Question
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:59
Thanks.
There is nothing to slip in the clutch.
 it consists of a spring rapped around a shaft.
The spring pushes the sides of the pulley outward making the
belt ride higher on the sides  changing the gearing to the secondary.
Which opens wider from the "Shorter" belt and spring presser and that changes the rpm to the prop. There all on splined shafts they can't slip, the belt can but not the clutches. When its in "Neutral" it is just the belt two "LONG" to engage the sides of the pulleys .
So there Not actually a centrifugal force friction clutch.
There a variable "Step" belt drive like on a drill press only automatic, kinda. 
 
Look at the bottom part of the exploded view and see the clutch assembly
 


Edited by d4570 - 13 October 2017 at 14:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2017 at 12:12
Originally posted by Irish Bird Dog Irish Bird Dog wrote:

wondering if there is a direct relationship to rpm's to clutch vs hp creating those rpm's????.....for example could you control the power output to the clutch via rpm's?...so as to not over max the clutch?
The VW gets its max HP at around 3000 rpm I could just limit the speed of the motor, BUT I NEED all the HP to spin the prop I have.
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