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Two stroke problems, just when we need it

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d4570 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 December 2021 at 11:39
Another two-stroke problem.
We have an old Polaris indy 400.
The backup gear is messed up, and I had to replace the gasket to keep in the oil. I did not want to spend $400 on a $100 sled so we have no reverse. The starter drive was so gummed up it would not slide into the flywheel gear, I fixed that and lubed it with my forming chain lube. 
It ran fine last year, this year we found the battery had frozen and split, we fixed that.
Now it turns like nobody's business.
BUT does not fire up.
I put in new gas and used starting spray.
Nothing.
I pulled the plugs there used and black but I thought they should still work, I cleaned them.
Grounded them on the head and spun it over, no spark at all, on either.
I checked the kill switch and it is in the run position.
Where should I look this happened when it was parked all summer, in fact, I started it once this summer.
The first thing I'm thinking is to change the plugs there probably 15 years old.
What should I look at next if they don't take care of the problem?
Whenever something happens out of the blue after I have done some work on it is to question if I did something. Your learned opinion is greatly appreciated.
We have a good of new snow here and cold.

Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 11:45
First I'd check HV output, use a screw driver from plug wire to ground (just like you did with the plug.  if spark then it IS the plug.  But I doubt that.

IF no spark it is in the HV.  that old it probably has a magneto. 

 IS IT A 1 OR 2 CYLINDER?

does it have a coil?  that would be next check.

some 2 strokes have a set of high voltage points to direct the magneto.


whose engine make is it???    polaris model number?




Edited by BEAR - 17 December 2021 at 11:54
The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 11:59
Thinking more.  most snow machines have an electrical breaker, some have fuses.  If it turns over it probably isn't the breaker, as that usually protects the whole electraical syatem.  It could hve two breakers; one for starter, one for the rest of electrical.  do the headlights worrk?

have you checked the breaker (s)?  flip them on off?

Toughest 2 stroke problem I've had was a spider had a small web built in the points when they were open for a few months.  everything looked good till I took points out.  now that has become an early checklist thing; just use a feeler gage into it to check.  Will do more thinking if I get make model 1 or 2 cylinders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 12:04
BOY you want to know a lot of stuff.
2 cylinders
Coils yes on the side of the motor the two plug wires come from there. 
"whose engine make is it???    Polaris model number?"
I have no Idea, Indi trail, Turing, it is a 400 or 440.
1995 ish.
No title to check.Confused
It does not look like changing the battery ( and mount) could have knocked anything loose but that when it stopped firing.
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 12:39
Sounds like you may have tripped a circuit breaker or burned out a fuse.  they are often lofated close to the battery box.  
sounds like two cylinder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 12:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 12:50
More thoughts.

snowmobiles usually have two 'kill switches'  one is usually near the throtle lever, usually attached to the driver (these often fail and disable the ignition).   there is usually a horseshoe designed clip that hold the spring switch in the closed position.  is that clip in place??/  sometimes you can pull back on the kill button to check if it is hung up.

 Some have kill switch in the seat, to detect a ridder fall off (also often failure).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 12:51
You could jump out those kill switches and see if your machine gets spark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2021 at 13:12
That's the direction I'm looking.
One kill is on the handlebars you have to push it down to kill.
The key switch will also "KILL" the motor when you turn it off.
I put in two new plugs , they needed to be changed anyway, Same no spark when I ground the plug to the heads.

Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 13:33
I was looking the wrong way!
I was fiddling with the wire harness, and a plug came apart.
I put it back together and I had spark to both plugs.
 Way cool!
 But it still will not run, but it fires now.
It will run as long as the raw gas I put in to the cylinders lasted.
There is no gas in the filter.
I can run gas through it If I poor it in, not plugged.
We drained the tank and maybe found some water, it's above freezing today.
New gas, still not getting to the carb?
If I elevate the fuel line and filter and fill the filter It will run till the gas is gone.
SO in my mind the fuel pump is not lifting the gas out of the tank.?
I ordered a fuel pump, and filter.
We will see if it works.

 
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 14:14
Is the pump a little rubber gasket with 4 check valves molded inti it?  Most are scavenge pressure of the crankcase.  The Mikuni Fuel Pump is easy to rebuild, takes just a screw driver, needle nose,  and a wire brush (1 hour)..

Edited by BEAR - 21 December 2021 at 14:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 14:19
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 14:27
That is it, just 3 dics and two gaskets.  But at that price, you will save time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 16:38
D,
 Good that you found the faulty connection..  Getting fuel to the carbs should be easier.  Yes, it's probably a fuel pump problem,  Is there a fuel line pick-up filter in the tank that could be plugged with debris or varnish?  Maybe blow through the fuel line backwards if the fuel pump replacement doesn't work.

Trigger Control is knowing when not to pull it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 16:45
Originally posted by lizard lizard wrote:

D,
 Good that you found the faulty connection..  Getting fuel to the carbs should be easier.  Yes, it's probably a fuel pump problem,  Is there a fuel line pick-up filter in the tank that could be plugged with debris or varnish?  Maybe blow through the fuel line backwards if the fuel pump replacement doesn't work.


I will blow back regardless.
And check the lines for a crack


Edited by d4570 - 21 December 2021 at 16:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2021 at 21:21
too late now but Polaris USED to have "STAR" motors....jap I'd guess. Rumor has it they run pretty good on White Rice!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2021 at 08:51
LOL

Instant cook or long cook rice????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2021 at 13:47
mmmm....I think the Polaris Star engine just maybe pre-dated instant rice!Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 11:38
The fuel pump and filter got here yesterday, but it was -20*. Today promises to be zero. We are going to try and changes it out today.

PS
You never want to work on a snowmobile in July????
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote d4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2022 at 18:14
The wind is still 25 to 30 mph but it got to +3* so we jumped on to working on the sleds. We have two exact Polaris sleds.
We changed pumps in both all the lines even the carb vent tubes that go into the airbox, fuel tank pick-up lines, and new filters and tank filters.
Outstanding, for around $100 buck both start right up and run like new 23-year-old sleds.!!!!Clap


Edited by d4570 - 01 January 2022 at 18:15
Remember: Four boxes keep us free ,the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, AND the cartridge box
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