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TasunkaWitko
Administrator
aka The Gipper
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14749
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Topic: questions regarding .308 and varget - Posted: 15 September 2003 at 11:09 |
according to varget, the starting load for a 165 grain .308 BTSP is 42 grains, with a maximum of 46 grains (compressed) with a COL of 2.75".
with 150-grain bullets, i am able to get a COL of 2.840 and still have plenty of room in the magazine for feeding. with 165's i think i might have to go a tad longer perhaps, if i can
my question is, based on this, with a 165-grain bullet can a person stuff another 1/2 grain in there (total of 46.5), with a COL of at least 2.840 (maybe a little longer) and be:
- a) SAFE?
- b) not compressed?
i remember dakotasin mentioning 47.5 grains of varget for a 165-grain bullet, so i am assuming that 46.5 should be fine with new components in a strong, modern commercial mauser action, with the longer COL (at least 2.840, longer if the magazine will allow).
i plan to load 5 at 42.4 and 5 at 46.5 and compare the two.i am perfectly happy with the slower laod, if it proves to be accurte, but i would like to compare the two, assuming that the concesus is that they are "safe."
Edited by TasunkaWitko
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana Helfen, Wehren, Heilen Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
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Moose6
.416 Rigby
AKA The Knoxville NASCAR Nut
Joined: 25 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2191
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 11:26 |
a) NO PROBLEM..... hopefully.
b) Depends on the bullet, but I'm sure it will fit.
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Y'all shoot straight!!!
Moose - Knoxville, TN
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Rob1
.416 Rigby
** The Walnut Whisperer **
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Vatican City State
Status: Offline
Points: 3413
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 11:46 |
I wouldn't assume 46.5 grains of varget/150 grain bullet is safe. 42gr. to 46gr. is a huge jump. I generally, not always, start closer to the max load than the minimum, but what you describe I wouldn't do. I would also check to make sure the round isn't pressed tight into the lands using the magazine length as your guide. Loading up something over the max load of some manuals combined with the bullet being shoved hard into the lands is a recipe for lots of excitement. I think CB has a .308 case for a stoney point guage.If not I'll get one and next time we meet up we can make up some dummy rounds for various bullets. I don't worry about compressed loads unless they're so compressed it pushes the bullet out.
Edited by Rob1
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TasunkaWitko
Administrator
aka The Gipper
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14749
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 11:56 |
rob -
i'm loading for the 165-grain, not the 150. even so, i was concerned about this compression and then adding ANOTHER half-grain on top of it. i was thinking that the longer COL might relieve some of this pressure and compression, but i could very easily be wrong, since i have never messed with this.
for now, perhaps i will load the starting load of 42.4 grains and see how those work. plenty of time to mess with the heavier charges.
i never have found the dang lands loading for this rifle. i used the "felt tip pen" method, and seated a 150-grain as far out as i could and still have it hold tight to the bullet. there never were any marks on the lands. a 165-grain bullet might show different results.
regarding the .308 case for the stoney point gauge, it now lives in lewistown! however, i don't have the "rest" of the set-up yet.
Edited by TasunkaWitko
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana Helfen, Wehren, Heilen Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
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NH_Hunter
.416 Rigby
aka The Kid
Joined: 13 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3508
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 13:28 |
Wooohoooo!!! MY .30-06 dies are on the way! Now all i need is powder. I got some 150 grain partitions for my b-day! What do you guys think for .30-06? I was thinking some Winnie 748. I want an accurate load, not a hyper-velocity magnum load!
NH_Hunter
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Leverguns make me smile
Proud Left Handed Shooter
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TasunkaWitko
Administrator
aka The Gipper
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: Chinook Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 14749
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 13:38 |
nh -
i got to thinking, our archives are starting to have some dang good stuff in them. people can use the search feature and come up with everything they need for loading data, hunting methods, etc.
with this in mind, i would suggest that you might copy your post above and start a new thread titled something like "loads for .30-06 with 150-grain bullet" or something like that. this way, someone searching ".30-06 loads" will have a whole pile of data to see.
one added benefit- it will give you an extra post!
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TasunkaWitko - Chinook, Montana Helfen, Wehren, Heilen Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
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NH_Hunter
.416 Rigby
aka The Kid
Joined: 13 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3508
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 13:44 |
Good idea Tas! It also means i get another post!
NH_Hunter
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Leverguns make me smile
Proud Left Handed Shooter
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tj3006
.416 Rigby
AKA King Leui VX-III
Joined: 16 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 15:59 |
I am a rather aggressive reloader, I usually start 1 grain behind the listed max load, if I am shooting a modern new rifle. I somtimes load 1 round at 1 grain under max, three rounds at the listed max and one round 1 grain over. If the 1st single round shows no pressure signs I shoot the 3 for group, if i am happy with the results, i shoot the other round just to get the brass back. I am not one to try to push very much over the listed max just cause you really are unlikly to gain much. I go for accuracy and it is usualy within a grain or two either side of max. If you need more power,(you probably don't) get a mag.
...tj3006
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Freedom 1st tj3006
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dakotasin
Administrator
a TRUE brother-in-arms!
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4099
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 16:36 |
i have offered in the past to put my notes up as i go, when working through a new cartridge - at least new to me... never was any interest in it, so i never did, but here's my 308 development...
all loads use winchester brass, match prepped. all loads use cci br-2 primers. all loads utilize 165 hornady bullets. the only variable is powder and charge. all groups shot at 200 yards.
rl-15: 42 grains: 1.475", 2493 f/s, 18 sd.
43 grains: 1.508", 2574 f/s, 22 sd.
44 grains: 1.168", 2656 f/s, 13 sd. (vertical string - no horizontal)
45 grains: 1.770", 2735 f/s, 13 sd (horizontal string - no vertical)
46 grains: 1.710", 2736 f/s, 17 sd (scattered group - note velocity)
47 grains: .820", 2798 f/s, 14 sd (clustered group, no pressure)
ok, after analyzing this, i see that there is definitely potential in the 44-45 grain range... but, for this rifle, i did not take rl-15 further because i didn't see any real good trends in accuracy (as related by charge), and standard deviations were on the cusp of unacceptable... anyway, decided to re-visit rl-15 as a last resort, if need be.
part 2 coming...
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Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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dakotasin
Administrator
a TRUE brother-in-arms!
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4099
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 16:53 |
part 2 (round 1 w/ varget)...
all testing parameters are the same as the rl-15 test. so...on to varget:
44 grains: 1.030", 2572 f/s, 17 sd.
45 grains: 1.750", 2659 f/s, 39 sd.
46 grains: 1.475", 2721 f/s, 10 sd (single flyer opened group...4-in .710")
47 grains: .705", 2801 f/s, 9 sd
ok, i like what i am seeing here... the trend appears to be tight, then loosening, and tightening again as powder charges get stiffer. also, note that in this test, as standard deviation went, so did group size. i really like what i am seeing here. looks like there is much potential somewhere in here.
part 3 coming soon....
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Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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dakotasin
Administrator
a TRUE brother-in-arms!
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
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Points: 4099
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 17:10 |
part 3 (round 2 w/ varget). all loads still being shot at 200 yards.
unfortunately, i ran out of varget and had to buy more... went w/ the 8-pound jug this time. the lot # i had been working w/ was no longer, so i figured w/ an 8-pounder i could verify data, finish development, and still have enough left over to load a few hundred cartridges... anyway, on to the new lot # of varget (also, there was quite a bit of velocity difference between new and old lot #'s):
45.5: 1.51", 2739 f/s, 15 sd
46.0: .895", 2764 f/s, 17 sd (vertical group, very little horizontal)
46.5: -group discounted... bad chrony readings, and called flyers-
47.0: .731", 2821 f/s, 9 sd
47.5: .539", 2867 f/s, 4 sd (3-shot group measured .2"... no need to push further as this load is already beyond book max, and is shooting .25 moa...)
so, there is where my initial testing stopped. after finding this load, i proofed the load on 3 different days at varying times of day, and the results are very consistent (just a touch more than .25 moa, 2870 f/s +/-, and sd runs 7)... this is as good as you could hope for from non-br guns.
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Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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dakotasin
Administrator
a TRUE brother-in-arms!
Joined: 10 June 2003
Location: United States
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Points: 4099
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Posted: 15 September 2003 at 17:22 |
caveats:
the loads listed are well beyond book max's. if you follow the data, you'll see my method for approaching and eclipsing max loads w/o blowing up my precious remington.
now, i seated the bullets to be just off the lands. doing this increased powder capacity (reducing pressure), besides helping out in the accuracy department. i can go measure col if anybody is really interested, but suffice it to say that it is loooooong.
my reccomendation for someone to develop a real ass-kickin' load w/ the 308 is to start near speer #13's listed max w/ varget, and work up in .5 grain increments. pay attention to your chrony, primers, and bolt lift... all 3 should be used to detect pressure problems, among other things.
also, i included group size measurements not to brag, but to help see what i am looking for in trends. not so much pure group size, but are the groups progressively shrinking, growing, or??? if this was based purely on group size, the testing would've ceased w/ rl-15 on what was likely a fluke group...
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Hunting is not a matter of life or death; it is much more important than that.
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