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Thank you, from the BaitShop Boyz!

First hunting rifle.

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Wing master View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2019 at 14:27
Someone earlier pointed out the availability of factory ammo. 

I was thinking, I hope she has this rifle long after I am dead and gone and that might be a big thing. I can load for her now but at some point probably not. 

That's where the .308 idea came from. 

I have shot a few prairie dogs and one coyote with a .308. They seemed to die just fine. I have an abundance of .308 165 grain Matchkings. They are pretty accurate in my .308. They might be a little heavy for prairie dogs.  

Wing master
I have always considered myself to be quite the bullshitter, But ocasionally it is nice to sit back and listen to a true professional......So, Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2019 at 07:54
Nice to see the 'hit' when PD hunting.  308 recoils too much and isn't pleasant for woman to shoot 100+ rounds.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 01:54
Yeah Good point Bear. I guess I could buy hher a new rifle for hunting big game and let her use something I have for prairie dogs. 

Wing master
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 07:29
I figure this way.  we shoot/hunt more varmints than big game.  so PD rifle that 'can' be used for antelope/deer seems best bet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsgbearpaws1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 13:08
Good selections all!....AR-10 platform right? Can get an upper in every caliber mentioned, ergonomic, etc. Versatile and can go all the way up to the 500 automax…..for bears and such.


...what...thought I heard teeth grinding....
...oh yeah! thats gonna hurt!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 16:12
Originally posted by Wing master Wing master wrote:

I live in Wyoming. She will probably be hunting antelope,mule deer, and elk. I do handload. For some reason, I like the less popular calibers. 
.243 would be a good choice, but 3/4 of all the kids around here start with a .243. .260 would be a great choice. 
I'm still undecided. 
 
Wing master
Wm, Don't worry so much about the caliber/cartridge. Concentrate on the rifle first.
 
#1 get her one that fits!!!
As she grows can the stock be lengthened?
My son is grown and still shoots his "kids" shotgun and air rifle with the stocks lengthened.
If stock can't be lengthened do you plan to restock it, sell it or keep it as kids rifle.
 
Better to work thru these items, then decide on a cartridge.
 
For examples:
If plan is to sell it, a 243W would be a good choice since its popular.
If plan is to grow the rifle with her, a 308 or 270 would be a good choice starting her off with reduced loads.  And you may not be around to reload for it the rest of her life so these can easily found in  factory ammo, too.
If plan is to keep as kids rifle for another kid, reload your favorite.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 17:55
Good advice Ray. 

I'm hoping to give her a rifle that she will keep and hunt with for many years after I am gone. 

I could find a rifle with a full length stock and then find a stock to cut down to fit her. That way when she grows up she will have an original rifle. 

I'm thinking Remington 700 take off stocks should be plentiful. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 18:20
lots of 700 stocks, take offs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2019 at 13:49
Wing, get yer GD a 7mm-08 and never look back. Has the punch of a .308 at terminal end and Waaay less punch at the shoulder end. Can even make the brass from .308 stuff if needed (I don't have any factory labeled brass for mine). Use a 139gr bullet with appropriate powder/charge and dun. Lighter boolets like 115gr for varmints if wanted. Now all that said the 6.5's are ok too. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2019 at 22:09
IBD

That's one I haven't thought of. Good suggestion. Low recoil and that should be something she could find factory ammo for pretty easy. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Bird Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2019 at 22:49
WM......read this....Story of the 7mm dia. bullet & the 7mm/08 Remington cartridge and it's comparison to other calibers. I have two rifles chambered for the 7mm-08 cartridge. One a Savage M110/LH  E.R. Shaw bbl'd bolt action and the other a BLR-81 lever action. Primary use for me is whitetail deer. My most used bullet is a 139gr SP of conventional design. However, I use a 115gr HP (Speer in my case) for varmints too. 


Behind the Bullet: 7mm-08 Remington

by Philip Massaro - Friday, May 10, 2019

Behind the Bullet: 7mm-08 Remington

When the .308 Winchester arrived on the scene in 1952, it made quite a splash, as it had the audacity to challenge the heralded .30-06 Springfield in both the military and civilian realms. Immediately, the wildcatters got to tinkering with the short case, necking it both up and down. Winchester released their .243 and the .358 within three years of the parent case, but it would be a while until the fourth child would come along, at least with a commercial pedigree.

Those wildcatters took the case from .22-caliber up to .375—and maybe beyond—but one of the best-performing wildcats was the 7mm/.308, developed in 1958. Simply the .308 Winchester case necked down to hold .284-inch bullets, and offering an excellent balance of bore diameter to case capacity, the 7mm/.308 would have to hang around for over two decades until Remington made it an honest cartridge by giving it their last name. Released in 1980, the 7mm-08 Remington would go on to be considered not only an excellent target cartridge, but one of the best deer cartridges ever conceived.

The 7mm-08 uses the same shoulder angle as its parent cartridge (20 degrees) to assure both smooth feeding and good headspacing from the rimless cartridge. The 7mm-08 uses a case measuring 2.035 inches—0.020-inch longer than the .308 Winchester—making it a perfect fit in a short-action receiver, and the 7mm-08 is fully capable of being housed in just about any action type.

The gamut of 7mm bullets makes the 7mm-08 very flexible, though much like its parent, bullets on the heavier end of spectrum tend to see velocities drop off, but not so much as to be unusable. Most of the factory loads for the 7mm-08 Remington are built around the 120-, 140- and 150-grain bullets, though there are some heavier loads available, using 160-grain and sometimes heavier bullets. For the handloader, there is a wide world available as far as bullet choices go, and the 7mm-08 case has proven to be a very efficient design, giving a whole lot of performance while burning very little powder.

The lighter 120-grain bullets, which work so wonderful for deer, usually run at a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps, giving a flat trajectory and generating a good amount of hydraulic shock. The 140-grain loads usually run at 2800 to 2850 fps, depending on the manufacturer and your barrel length, and represent an excellent middle-of-the-road choice, being capable of taking deer, black bear and other similar-sized game species.

The 150- and 160-grain bullets, while running at an average velocity of just about 2650 fps, offer a higher sectional density, and therefore should give better penetration on the larger game species like elk and moose. The 7mm-08 Remington, like the .308 Winchester, gives an excellent balance of flat trajectory, minimal report and recoil, and effective killing power. While most people think of it as a deer cartridge—and among the myriad choices for deer, it’s hard to deny the capability of the 7mm-08—with premium bullets of sensible weight, the 7mm-08 Remington makes a good all-around choice for North America. In my opinion, for a hunter who spends most of his or her time hunting whitetails, and only occasionally hunts larger game, the 7mm-08 Remington makes a better choice than does the bigger 7mm Remington Magnum.

In comparison to the larger 7mm cartridges, the 7mm-08 (as well as the older 7x57mm Mauser) falls into the category of ‘sweet shooting’, as the recoil characteristics are easily managed by nearly any shooter; the same cannot be said for any of the 7mm magnums. My own 7mm-08 is in a Tikka T3x Lite rifle, and it is as accurate as it is easy to carry. Like the .308 Winchester, the 7mm-08 can be seriously accurate, with most rifles at or inside of 1-MOA, and .5-MOA is not out of the question. Rifles for the 7mm-08 are usually short, light and handy, and the cartridge makes a great choice for a mountain rifle.

For the handloader, the 7mm-08 will run on powders with a medium to medium-slow burn rate, say from IMR4064/VARGET/RL-15 up to IMR4350/RL-19. A standard large rifle primer will handle the efficient powder column. The 7mm-08 case has a capacity of between 52 and 55 grains of water, depending on the brand, which usually results in a powder charge that fills the case well. Combine that with the short/fat conformation of the powder column, and you have the recipe for what many refer to as ‘inherent accuracy’, though that term is debatable. I do know that almost all the 7mm-08 rifles I’ve spent time with have been very accurate.

I think the 7mm-08 Remington still suffers from the ‘new-kid’ syndrome; it has some serious competition in the 7x57mm Mauser—which has been with us sine the 19th century and has a nostalgic quality to it—as well as Remington’s other two extremely popular 7mms: the .280 Remington and 7mm Remington Magnum. As if that wasn't enough of a challenge, the barrage of 6.5mm cartridges—including the .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor—has surely had an effect on the popularity of the 7mm-08.

Nonetheless, the 7mm-08 remains an excellent choice as a hunting cartridge, and a decent choice for a target cartridge for those who stay inside of 1,000 yards, maybe a bit more. It is the equal of the 7x57mm Mauser, with the possible exception of the heaviest bullets, it is a cartridge capable of taking almost all species in North America, save the large bears and the bison, and it is a cartridge that allows a hunter/shooter to become proficient as a marksman without punishment. The 7mm-08 Remington sits—rather comfortably—between the 6.5 Creedmoor/.260 Remington and the .308 Winchester; and that’s not a bad place to be at all.



Edited by Irish Bird Dog - 15 December 2019 at 22:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2019 at 23:58
Thanks IBD. That's interesting. That just might be the perfect choice. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2019 at 07:15
I've often thought a 25-08 would be a perfect round.  It is a fine wildcat load, but no one has made it into a factory round.  Just like the 6-08 (aka 243 )  was promoted as the perfect deer AND varmint cartridge, the 25-08 would be better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2019 at 22:36
I totally agree Bear. I have always liked the .257 caliber rounds. I like the .257 Roberts but the 25-08 should be somewhat faster. I only wish someone made heavier .257 bullets. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2019 at 05:46
W m,
 
Look into the 0.257 - 131 grain Blackjack bullets:
 


Edited by RaySendero - 17 December 2019 at 05:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wing master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2019 at 22:37
Thanks Ray. That's interesting. 

I wonder what twist rate would be needed to stabilize these bullets in a .257 Roberts? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RaySendero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2019 at 04:38
Yeah, They are not for standard twist barrels.
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