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Lets Talk 12GA From Hell |
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Tested the Wickcliffe with 12ga FH case
in a temperary chamber, just primer, to see if hammer with beefed up spring would fire bmg primers.I scalloped out the back of the action so 12ga cases would feed into the action and temp chamber They fired ok. But the extra stiff spring makes it hard to cock. We will have to work on that.The original Wickcliffe action that we want to scale up is tall enough so that when breech block is lowered the block clears the bottom a 12ga rim when cases slide out of chamber. So in the scale up we need to just add a a little width for wider breech block, and the bigger barrel thread, and keep the sides thick for strength.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Fired couple 3.5" cases with 90gr
4759 and 460 grains of buckshot, 14 number 1 buckshot.Fired in nef, pattern huge due to rifling, even with shotcup. They were going 2000 fps plus, and went through 1/8 steel on end of stand. Ignition perfect, extracted easy. In smoothbore be a real hairy load. With three 3.5" plastic cases with 100gr 4759, 600gr slug. Used .135 card wad, a 1/2" and 1/4" felt wads. 1900+ fps in 24" NEF barrel, same low pressure as the 3" cases we pressure tested. I have NEF chamber lengthened for our longer brass case so it does 3 & 3.5" also. A nice long barrel we'd have 2050 plus.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Here is pictures of the breech, lever, |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Here is sectioned action with parts in.
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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I will be posting more research on this thread |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Here is pic of the first finished model
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Another shotgun/rifle experiment is 28ga FH. |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Here is picture of the first falling block
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Here is pic of action model with lever open
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Here is pic of a double that I will put |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Had question about locking RMC cases onto
lead slugs, as they don't crimp into the grooves well as sharp bend works thick mouth. First I resize tight and slightly bell mouth.Insert slugs which take a little pressure. Then I use a die with slightly more taper and swage the mouth into slug, like the fit you get with bottleneck cases. Same deal works with our long cases made from BMG brass.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Preliminary testing with VV N-110 powder shows
it works with small primers like the 4759 powder, in plastic cases. Perfect ignition like the 4759. Starting loads are 60 gr min like 4759 for good ignition,600gr slug. In 2 & 3/4" plastic full load is 75gr with card and 1/4" cushion wad.In Nef 24" bbl 1700fps. In 3" plastic 87gr, card and 3/8" wad, 1800 plus. In RMC brass case. 100gr, card and 1/2 wad 1900 plus. All running same safe pressures as 4759 lab tested. So that is two powders that are slower than shotgun powders, and much safer to work with for regular primers, giving at least 20% more velocity. Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Along with the two slower than shotgun powders, IMR 4759
and VV N110 that ignite reliably with shotgun primers, that are easier to load for slugs, in heavy bbl can get 20% plus more velocity, I've found another. It is IMR 7383 $3 a lb surplus. Tested plastic 3" cases, perfect ignition with regular primers. 8 types of cases,600gr slug starting load 100gr. Full load 140gr giving 1800 fps plus in 24" bbl NEF.With loads halfway between start and full didn't even have to resize to shoot again.Full load just has a card wad under slug in 3" plastic.Wad just tight on charge, as no extreme compression of powder needed. Will do heavier slugs and RMC brass cases. Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Tested 730g with 7383. Perfect ignition.Extracts easy.
130gr gives 1650 plus fps in 3" plastic. Tested 800g slug with 7383 in plastic.Works good. Have question about different cases and dies. The RMC cases use a shotgun primer, thus they have a real thick base. They are not a thin headed, balloon headed case, and RMC makes sides thick enough for regular 12ga wads. But in a break action the 3" plastic cases with our 4759, VV110, 7383 loads are close to RMC in power. Can buy a hundred plastic for price of one RMC. 3.5" chamber 12ga with plastic is as good as RMC for 3" And if I shot RMC in Savage to get more power, which I could do as far as the firing process, the expansion above the base, due to being a turned case would make extraction stiff, causing extractor to damage rim. A turned rim will not take what a drawn one will. Rcbs set should do RMC easy.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Tested 870gr hard slug with 7383 in 3"
plastic. Over 1500 fps in NEF short barrel. I wish it had a longer 32" barrel.......... The folks at 50 Cal suggested we write up a piece on the 12GA FH. Interested in what we did to make hairy cartridge using 50 cal brass adapted to the 12 gauge shotgun platform. A job for Rob to do? His wild idea has been viewed about 400,000 times in the forums we put it in.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Found another powder that works with small
primers in plastic and RMC cases, w/600gr slug. It is IMR 4227. Ignition perfect, same load levels and velocities as 4759. Powders slower than shotgun type, that ignite properly with small primers(shotgun-lg rifle); we found 4759, VV-110, 4227, 7383 surplus, the latter a slow powder that also works with real heavy slugs Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Pressure tested 7383 with heavy powder load.
870 gr with 128 gr of 7383-- All that could be put in REM plastic and keep length to what would feed from magazine of a 3" gun, after it was roll crimped with tool in drillpress. 1513 fps-- 14700 psi. That is a slug 50% heavier than factory Buckhammer at little faster speed and at little less pressure. Ignition perfect, cases fall out. Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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Rockydog
Administrator Joined: 13 June 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3191 |
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ED, At 125 grains per load I bet that $3.00 stuff looks pretty good. RD |
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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RD-Yes it's good deal and case is full so don't have to worry about overloads. Even with the heavier slugs. You could load with lee dip cups.Ed |
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Ed Hubel
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hubel458
.30/06 SpringField Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 364 |
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Finally able to make the |
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Ed Hubel
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