Posted: 11 March 2009 at 17:00 | IP Logged

i have IMR 4064, IMR 4831, RL15 and varget; i can get IMR 4895 if needed.

several different brands of brass, separated, including winchester, PMC, Lake City, federal and i think remington. - even have maybe 20 herters.

an ample supply of CCI primers (am holding on to 200 CCI BR primers for use when i find "the load").

As for bullets, I am looking primarily at 150grn sierra pro hunters and 165grn sierra gamekings.

CH "H" press, lee deluxe collet die set, lee factory crimp die and lee auto prime make up the primary equipment - cases will be prepped by with trimming and chamfering following sizing. i don't have a flash hole deburring tool or primer pocket uniformer - may have to sneak a couple of things into the shopping cart next time we are in great falls?

will consult manuals (lyman, hornady and lee plus the "load book" with data from everyone) tonight for starting loads - suggestions will be welcomed!

Posted: 11 March 2009 at 21:01 | IP Logged

here's what i have for recommended starting loads (except where noted) from my sources (hornady, lee, lyman and the load book):

hornady - 150g

• varget - 38.2g
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 40.0g
• RL15 - 40.1g
• I4895 - 39.5g

hornady - 165g

• varget - 37.1g
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - n/a
• RL15 - 38.8g
• I4895 - 40.0g

nosler (loadbook) - 150g

• varget - n/a
• I4831 - 48.0g
• I4064 - 44.0g
• RL15 - 42.0g
• I4895 - 40.5g

nosler (loadbook) - 165g

• varget - n/a
• I4831 - 47.0g
• I4064 - 40.5g
• RL15 - 40.0g
• I4895 - 39.0g

sierra (loadbook) - 150g

• varget - 41.4g
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 40.7g
• RL15 - 42.5g
• I4895 - 41.1g

sierra (loadbook) - 165g

• varget - 40.0g
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 39.2g
• RL15 - 39.9g
• I4895 - 39.5g

speer (loadbook) - 150g

• varget - 43.0g
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 43.0g
• RL15 - 45.0g
• I4895 - 41.0g

speer (loadbook) - 165g

• varget - n/a
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 41.0g
• RL15 - 43.0g
• I4895 - 39.0g

lee - 150g

• varget - 44.0g
• I4831 - 46.0g
• I4064 - 42.3g
• RL15 - 37.1g
• I4895 - 42.1g

lee - 165g

• varget - 42.0g
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 40.7g
• RL15 - 36.5g
• I4895 - 40.0g

lyman - 150g

• varget - n/a
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 43.0g
• RL15 - 41.0g
• I4895 - 40.0g

lyman - 165g

• varget - n/a
• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 39.1g
• RL15 - 41.0g
• I4895 - 38.0g

hogdon (loadbook) - 150g (max load?)

• varget - 44.0g

hogdon (loadbook)- 165g (max load?)

• varget - 42.0g

alliant (loadbook) - 150g (max load?)

• RL15 - 46.3

alliant (loadbook) - 165g (max load?)

• RL15 - n/a

IMR - 150g (max loads?)

• I4831 - n/a
• I4064 - 46.0g (c)
• I4895 - 44.5g

IMR - (loadbook) - 165g

• no loads given

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

from this research, i can pretty much rule out I4831; varget is missing from some sources, but i suspect that has more to do with the fact that it seems to be a relatively new powder rather than a reflection on its performance.

I4064 came out as the powder most specifically recommended, but I4895 was mentioned often as the most consistent. varget and RL15 had a habit of placing well near the top of every chart.

i think i will start with 150g bullets first (sierra pro-hunter) and once that is done move to the 165s (sierra gameking).

so, with all of the different starting loads for each powder, what does one do? take an average and start there?

Posted: 12 March 2009 at 12:55 | IP Logged

Taz

I have a couple of 308's that I reload for and I have found that Varget works well in them. I don't remember the exact load but I will check if you want me to.  I have tried a number of bullets and have decided that for me the 180gr works the best.

Russ

Posted: 12 March 2009 at 13:08 | IP Logged

hey, russ -  yes, please post that load and i will see if i can get it to go, bringing it down 10% as a starting load.

i do have a partial box of 180-grain PSPs (herters) but for my hunting (deer and antelope) i see no reason to use these rare bullets. if i do pick up a box of 180s for an eventual elk hunt, i will definitely give it a try.

Posted: 12 March 2009 at 13:54 | IP Logged

I use 43gr 4064 or 45gr 4320 with 150gr sp bullets. Both do about 2600fps. Not real fast but very accurate.

DD

Posted: 12 March 2009 at 19:56 | IP Logged

How fast is the twist on your herter's mj9 in .308, you may need faster than 1/11 for 180s,  I had a 1/11" savage and unless I pushed it hard, it didn't like anything above 155s.  If you find you have problems with 165 or 180s, you could have slow twist barrel and find it likes 150s best.

I have used IMR 4320 and IMR4895 (a little faster powder)for 125 BT and 130 sp 50-52gr (.308 seems to like compressed loads) gave better than 3,100 fps, good antelope/deer load,  I also loaded some youth loads, good for plinking or varmints. 

RC

Posted: 12 March 2009 at 21:35 | IP Logged

moose - i'll definitely be giving R15 a try!

robert - i am not sure of the twist on my barrel - i do know that rob measured it a few years ago, but i can't remember for sure what it was - i want to say 1:12, but am not certain. what i do know for sure is that the ebst accuracy so far with this rifle has been with 180-grain hornady flat-based bullets (0.6 of an inch inch), but i am hoping to find a load that is as accurate or possibly even better with 150s.

got a slight hang-up in the development for now (see my post titled "problem with lee factory crimp die") but hope to have it resoved soon. in the meantime, i might run a test on some starting loads sans crimp and use them as a "control group" for comparison with crimped dies once the problem is resolved.

Posted: 12 March 2009 at 22:36 | IP Logged

  Heres my favorite  load for most of my .308's

 IMR 4895@44.0 gr  150gr Hornady's  Win. WLR primer

 Jerrs rifle's best and most favorite.

 W748@49.4 gr 150 gr GK  WLR primer

 Favorite 165gr GK load

 AA2495@45 gr   WLR primer

Posted: 13 March 2009 at 19:00 | IP Logged

The new standard twist for .308 is 1/10", alot of the older ones had 1/11" to 1/12".  I have a 1/9" 22" heavy barrel in .308 to put on savage, I have two .243 barrels to burn out first though, the one on it is almost ready, it's opened up to right at 1", when it gets to two, I'll trade it out.

RC

Posted: 16 March 2009 at 12:48 | IP Logged

Taz

I looked up the load I have been using and it is 45 grains of Varget behind a 180 grain bullet. I know most people use lighter bullets (150 or 165 grain) but most of the time we hunt elk and I have found the 180 works much better on elk than the 150 or 165. It is amazing how effective this load is on everything. My wife has taken antelope, deer and elk all with the same load. My brother in law shoots the same load and he has taken 3 elk in 4 years with it. It is one of those loads that just work no matter what.

Good luck

Russ

Posted: 16 March 2009 at 12:53 | IP Logged

russ - ii am finding that my rifle seems to love heavier bullets. i loaded up some 170-grain flat .30/30 bullets just for the heck of it and they worked very well with a heck of a punch.

to me, anything voer 165 (frankly 155) is jsut too damn heavy, but with accuracy like this maybe i need to consider it.

Posted: 16 March 2009 at 16:44 | IP Logged

I understand and remember my "perfect deer cartridge" is the 260 Remington with a 129 gr.  But with the bullet weight higher you need a bullet that will open up at a reasonable velocity in a 14-18 inch thin skinned animal.   that is why the 170 flat nose is so great in 30 caliber.  I've helped so many guy track deer wounded with the 180 '06, they looked like 30 cal in 30 cal out. 

Posted: 18 March 2009 at 00:39 | IP Logged

17MAR2009 - first "official" loads

• cartridge - .308 winchester
• quantity - 20
• brass - pmc
• primer - cci 200 lr
• bullet - sierra pro hunter pspfb - 150 grains - bc .3940
• coal - 2.800

dies used

• lee collet neck sizing die
• lee dead-length seating die (no crimp)

loads

• a) varget - 42.5g - 3.1cc - estimated velocity 2773fps (lee) - 5 cartridges
• b) rl15 - 39.6g - 2.8cc - estimated velocity 2500(?)fps (lee) - 5 cartridges
• c) imr 4064 - 41.6g - 3.1cc - estimated velocity 2682fps (lee) - 5 cartridges loaded
• d) imr 4831 - 42.2g - 3.1cc - estimated  velocity 2265fps (lee) - 5 cartridges loaded

1. deprimed cases
2. cleaned cases
3. neck-sized cases
4. trimmed all cases (none required this time)
5. chamfered all cases (outside, then inside)
6. brushed case necks
7. primed cases
8. charged cases as per data above
9. seated bullets (no crimp this time)
10. inspected and boxed cases

well, there they are - everything is identical except the four loads. i plan to take the two best performers and tweak them as needed - factory crimp, seating depths, work up charges etc.

i know that the estimated velocities are about as reliable as reading tea leaves on a full moon with a black cat running under a ladder over a broken mirror on friday the 13th, but i needed something and these are what the book gave me. the one for RL15 is a real wild guess based on where it fell between two other loads. i don't expect actual velocities to be as they are above, but since i have no chronograph, i'll probably never miss the difference.

i have absolutely no faith in the imr 4831 load, but i had the powder on the shelf and there was some data, so i tossed it in. i really need to get some imr4895 on my next payday.

ran these loads through point blank and got some intersting things for the varget and the 4064. those interested can take a look:

• 2009-03-18_003447_308_alpha.txt
• 2009-03-18_003518_308_bravo.txt
• 2009-03-18_003549_308_charlie.txt
• 2009-03-18_003559_308_delta.txt

i will be out of town the next three days, but am taking my rifle and this ammo in the hopes that an opportunity might come along to test this ammunition, either in the helena area or the great falls area. if not, i will try it at home this weekend. i have no rifle vise and am a bit "shaky", so i am not sure if 100-yard evaluations will be a good idea at these early stages, when i want to know what this load will do regardless of my abilities; still, at the same time, 25- or 50-yard evaluations seem like a waste of time.

that is all for now - comments or opinions would be appreciated!